DC16 Hand-held

[Coxy]

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There are lots of reports of the DC16 only running for a short period and then shutting down.  I've seen the recommendation to bypass the Hall Sensor, and also multiple reports that that doesn't always fix the problem.  I've tried replacing the battery and that was helpful for a short time, but then the same problem returned. 

I suspect the setting for the voltage drop from the battery is set too high.  The motor still runs at full speed even though the cut-out comes into play, so I think it was probably a Dyson error on the original circuit board specification.  I'm pretty sure that the later hand-helds don't suffer from the same problem, so probably Dyson realised that this was the fault because, for a while, they replaced the entire head unit (but they obviously don't want to keep doing that for everybody).

So, as the body on the later hand-helds is pretty much the same as on the early ones, and the motor seems to be exactly the same, is it possible to replace the early-type circuit board for one from the later version of the hand-helds?  If so, does anybody know the model number or part number?

I have called Dyson but they just put you through to a 'Sales' call centre and it's impossible to speak to anybody who is actually familiar with internals of the product.  These weren't a cheap item and I don't think it's reasonable when the whole of the unit is perfectly serviceable that Dyson can just say "We don't supply parts for these any more" and you're supposed to accept it.  I'd appreciate any comment that anyone is able to make.     

[Madrat]

The DC16 has a standard motor, all the others have a digital motor so very different.

[Coxy]

Thanks for your reply.  In that case I would have thought there should to be a way to bypass the electronics and just use the trigger to switch the current supply from the battery.  I need to understand how to do that but still keep the battery charger operational.

[ryevac]

The switch will be low current electronic type so i dont think you can.
the finger switch would have to trigger a relay or a transistor / fet switch.
Then you have to add current control for the battery charging side, as dont forget when these units are charging the switch doesn't work.
The equivelent you are thinking of doing is wiring your car headlamps - one supply to the battery and one to the headlamp switch on your dash, it would burn out in less than a minute.

The battery pack is very high current, and peak switching current is a lot higher.
What you suggest is actually dangerous in my opinion.

[Coxy]

Hello Trev

Thanks for your response.  I take your point, though that's precisely how car headlights were wired - with  a foot dipswitch - before people introduced relay circuits.  However, I'm sure your reasoning is precisely why there are no alternative wiring diagram fixes on the net for this unit.

It's a shame.  I suspect the basic problem is that the low voltage cut-out to protect excessive drain on the battery cuts in too early.  I say that because the motor hasn't even started to slow in revs, but the 'won't run' mechanism already prevents it running.  I suppose the only other method would be to locate the variable resistor that sets the cut-off voltage and adjust it down a bit.  I realise that would take more out of the battery, but at the moment the only option is to throw the machine away because you can't get the value from just replacing the battery.

Oh well, I suppose Dyson just had to learn a bit more before they released the later version.  Pity all the early-adopters had to pick up the cost of teaching them though.

Regards

Bill   

[ryevac]

Hi Bill
I know it's sad really. I have looked at the pcb inside the battery pack also and i believe there is an eeprom on that board too which counts the cycles.

It would be possible to knock something up on the bench with a high current dc switching circuit for experimental purposes but not really practical to fit into the unit safely.
The only way to fix i suppose is to attempt a component level repair to the main board of the hand unit, up till a couple of years ago i would have attempted to having a go, as half my job was bench repair tech working with smd etc.
Nower days i dont get involved, there's no money in it and i am quite happy working on general vacs, and my other tv / aerial work.
Have you seen one of them single batteries out of a battery pack go bang ? we use them in our fenix headlamps whilst out cod hunting, i have seen lads use them in crappy chinese chargers and it isnt good when they go.
Foe experimental purposes i put one on the fire - in my washer drum fire pit (in the garden) with a paving slab over the top, see what happens after a few minutes and that is what happens when reverse polarity connected or over charged.

there wont be a variable resistor in the main unit pcb,? it will be done with a comparator i.c circuit i would have thought tbh.
If you could get the main pcb out - you could cold check all the smd resistors, diodes etc and if really lucky find some duff but it is an over complicated thing.

[Coxy]

Well, the only thing is that the later version of the hand-helds is supposed to be better.  It would seem to me that Dyson sorted out the 'suction' side of the hand-held before he solved the 'motor' side of it.  Sure, you could get a motor to deliver the required suction, but the only problem was that the current drain on the battery meant that battery life was lousy.  Now why didn't he include that bit of information in the marketing blurb I wonder?  It's OK styling yourself as the Master Innovator but when you come short there ought to be a point where you put your hand up and offer a part-exchange upgrade because you KNOW you've sold your supporters a lemon.  You can't paint yourself as Mr. Clean and then sell the people short.  That's all suck and no blow.

[ryevac]

i have worked for at least 5 major manufacturers in a different field - non of them are any different in respect to Mr Dysons technical innovations.