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Dyson Advice => Vacuum and Appliance Chat => Topic started by: Dyson2000 on September 19, 2015, 09:28:44 pm

Title: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 19, 2015, 09:28:44 pm
Hi All. Sorry for not posting much because I've been busy over these past months and I'm just at an end of a horrible cold  :icon_nod:. Last week i went on Ebay and looked at fans. One came up for £10 and only had 2 mins left. I bid £14 and i just made it, some one else bidden £13.74 before me at the last min, i was lucky then Ha  :grinn:. Today
I was at work  ( Helping Dad.) and i got told it arrived today. So i thought cool, looks like i will get it in tonight!.

Anyway, Here it is unboxed and on my workbench in my new shed!.

The Box

[attachimg=1]

The Manual

[attachimg=2]

It All Unboxed

[attachimg=3]


Now this is an Timer Version, Model:DX100T, The fan is 240v Ac not a SELV one.

The Wiring. The fan terminals are Live,Neutral and Switched Live. if you wanted to use it as an standard fan just bridge the switched live with the permanent live and it will work. i wanted to use my pull cord off my old fan. so here is what i did.

[attachimg=4]



Run a wire from the Permanent live and the switched live to youre switch. and you're pretty much done. it acts like its hooked up with the lights but one a pull cord. when i switch the pull cord on there is a small delay to be expected before the fan will run. and when you switch it off with the pull cord it continues to run until the time is up. You can set the timer to 2-20 Min Max.

[attachimg=5]

[attachimg=6]

Thats it You're done! Have fun with youre new fan if you fit one!  :thumbsup:

Oh, Yes almost forgot  I found a DC25 Animal at my local tip today. there will be pictures posted up when i get around to doing the project.   ;)
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: beko1987 on September 19, 2015, 11:04:05 pm
Cool! We have an ancient fan in our bathroom that sounds like crap. Keep meaning to trawl google to find an instal manual so I can see how it comes apart. Ours works off the light on a timer, I have it turned right down to 5 mins because it sounds crap.

If it ever comes down it will be getting the treatment, possibly new bearings if I can find it too.

What you using it for? Looks to be on a wall
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 19, 2015, 11:07:38 pm
It's I'm my new shed. We make a hole for the vent out side and mounted the fan inside. Sounds a bit weird, I'm into electronics ha  :reading:
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: beko1987 on September 19, 2015, 11:14:08 pm
Meh, sounds fair enough! Will take all the clouds of dust outside when you open up a minging cleaner I suppose!
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 19, 2015, 11:38:42 pm
See you're fan at the moment,  I would just keep it going til it eventually it starts to make crazy noises.  Our old bathroom fan was the same as the one I put in today but it was a SELV one with Humidity Sensor, Timer and Pull cord. It got nosey and started to rattle and the Humidity Sensor had gone faulty and the fan never wanted to switch off. We managed to get a manufacturers replacement for free, it was the same but an improved circuit and sensors.

If you have a fan that's in a bathroom with shower etc. I would recommend a humidity one. Because It will come on when it needs to, even when you're not in the bathroom with the shower running etc. It would help keep the damp out of you're bathroom
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: beko1987 on September 19, 2015, 11:43:13 pm
Ha, tell our landlord that! Every so often I take the grille off and vac it out, but it needs more work than that doing. We dont have a window in the bathroom so it's needed. I think there's a way to pull the main workings off the 'live' part, but cant find the link I saw it on now to confirm.

I paint the bath sealent with bleach every month or so, keeps it at bay. And we leave the door open most of the time to help.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 19, 2015, 11:55:19 pm
Our bathroom is not that better either. There is plaster board covering the pipes where the bath drains and the tap pipes etc, that is not insulated, and is causing mold problems up in the corner of the sealing, Right next to the fan actually. Before we bought the house the council blamed the Dog and the clothes pully on the top of the stairs. You can even see in the loft it's not insulated at all!. And there is a stupid EU law, they say they should be some sort of ventilation equipment in bathroom and the kitchen.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 20, 2015, 01:32:12 pm
We have an expelair fan in our bathroom and a window lol :) The fan is alright, the white plastic is a bit yellow now but we never use it. We have another random branded one in the kitchen and a big window in the kitchen. If theres lots of steam or something then we turn it on occasionally, has a soft start motor which is cool
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 07:19:33 pm
Our bathroom is not that better either. There is plaster board covering the pipes where the bath drains and the tap pipes etc, that is not insulated, and is causing mold problems up in the corner of the sealing, Right next to the fan actually. Before we bought the house the council blamed the Dog and the clothes pully on the top of the stairs. You can even see in the loft it's not insulated at all!. And there is a stupid EU law, they say they should be some sort of ventilation equipment in bathroom and the kitchen.

Nothing stupid about a law requiring ventilation in a bathroom or kitchen. In the bathroom: Without adequate ventilation, you'll eventually find 2 things happening: 1) You'll have foul odours
through out the house, spreading the germs that go with them. 2) You'll have steam from your bath / shower / sink condensing on the walls, especially cooler outer walls. Over a short period of time it will cause patches of black mold to appear & start growing, the spores from the mold get into the air & you breathe them in. Once they're on your lungs, they can cause all sorts of breathing problems & can be lethal to babies and the elderly especially. If your house needs loft insulation, your parents could contact British Gas as at the moment they do it for free.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 20, 2015, 07:36:23 pm
Yes I know but the fan does the same thing as opening a window,  I understand stand if you don't have a window in your bathroom.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: beko1987 on September 20, 2015, 07:44:37 pm
Ours doesnt even do the job it was really supposed to, I like scalding showers, and it gets like a sauna in there even with the fan on. I leave the door open now, but when we first moved in I didnt and Amy came up, opened the door and nearly got blown over with the steam.

3 months after we moved in the thermostat went pop in the shower, luckily it was under warranty. Funny that...

Even if the landlord ok'd a new extractor the current one has so many layers of paint sealing it to the ceiling it would look awful if moved, plus if they had to go in the loft to change the end on the pipe leading outside I'd have to move about 13 hoovers out the way...
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: MVacs on September 20, 2015, 07:57:15 pm
If your house needs loft insulation, your parents could contact British Gas as at the moment they do it for free.

Cheers for that, ours needs some and I just registered for a visit.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 08:11:44 pm
No probs mate, if you've got the normal 4" of insulation they usually add 4" on top & it does make a fair difference.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 08:22:03 pm
Yes I know but the fan does the same thing as opening a window,  I understand stand if you don't have a window in your bathroom.

A lot of the problem is that people don't open the bathroom window when bathing or showering especially in winter leading to condensation problems, a properly sized Humidity sensing extractor will stop the problem happening.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 08:31:35 pm
Ours doesnt even do the job it was really supposed to, I like scalding showers, and it gets like a sauna in there even with the fan on. I leave the door open now, but when we first moved in I didnt and Amy came up, opened the door and nearly got blown over with the steam.

Could just be that the fan's so old it's not running fast enough to extract properly, another thing that can affect them is when you've got a door that's a tight fit to the carpet.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 20, 2015, 08:38:23 pm
We have a fan with a timer, turns it's self off after 15 min's, we had one that was Humidity sensing but it was a pain in the arse, would switch on in the middle of the night and scare the pants off you, didn't help that the council worker fitted it crooked so in hot weather it would catch and sound like a hornets nest  :angryman:  Never worked that great anyway.  I fitted a pull switch to this one and an LED so you know if its on or on timer.  Still get condensation on the walls and the sealant has gone black (grey if its been soaked in bleach) I have really hot showers as well.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: beko1987 on September 20, 2015, 08:46:56 pm
Ours is ancient,  and caked in crap.  I got in there with the miele on full chat,  and gently poked the fan so it monentarily stopped and chunks  of dust flew off.  A good wash and it may be half decent. The next time the cover falls off ill have a look,  managed to refit it so it didnt vibrate so wont touch it now!
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 08:51:49 pm
Hi madrat: If the fan was switching on without high room humidity levels, then you more than likely had a knackered sensor.
We used to have to fit humidi fans in all new builds & conversions we did. 1 firm i was subbing to
decided to subsitute a cheaper fan for the one's specified on the contract & we started having problems with random activation complaints, it was due to faulty humidity sensors. We ended up changing 50 of them in the end, really  :censored: me off.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 20, 2015, 09:24:37 pm
What's loft insulation? I always thought it was when you convert the attic into part of the house with a proper staircase aswell, or is it just adding more yellow wool stuff?
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 09:37:08 pm
Yep: The yellow stuff ( fibreglass) is the insulation.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 20, 2015, 09:41:22 pm
Tech12: we have lots of loft insulation. It's just the walls,  it's kind of acting like a lunch box lid
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 20, 2015, 09:46:39 pm
, it was due to faulty humidity sensors. We ended up changing 50 of them in the end, really  :censored: me off.

What fans where they? I'm guessing they would be Xpelair,  the council had to do a recall. There where thousands of fans replaced because of faulty humidity sensors, timers etc
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 20, 2015, 09:51:47 pm
Aahh I was thinking it wrong all these years...
Whats it called when you convert the attic to extend the house? We had that done about a decade ago and its fab ;D If I imagine my house without it, errgh tiny.

PS fibreglass? hmm, we have fibreglass roofing done on our house extension :) It's good, bathtubs are also made of it, they are water proof and solid. Our fibreglass thing for the roof was like a white fluffy thing instead of the wooly substance of insulation
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 20, 2015, 09:52:41 pm
Speaking of fans and heating/insulation stuff, we might be getting a Dyson hot ;D its bloody freezing in our house! D:
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 09:56:25 pm
Hi D2000, in post number 6 you said that looking into the attic "You can even see that there's no insulation at all"

Actually no they were'nt expelair, they should have been. Unfortunately the contractor decided to make some extra cash & buy chinese made fans instead.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 09:58:15 pm
Speaking of fans and heating/insulation stuff, we might be getting a Dyson hot ;D its bloody freezing in our house! D:

Freezing ? The weather isn't even cold yet, you getting soft on us ? :grinn:
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 20, 2015, 10:17:43 pm
Aahh I was thinking it wrong all these years...
Whats it called when you convert the attic to extend the house? We had that done about a decade ago and its fab ;D If I imagine my house without it, errgh tiny.

PS fibreglass? hmm, we have fibreglass roofing done on our house extension :) It's good, bathtubs are also made of it, they are water proof and solid. Our fibreglass thing for the roof was like a white fluffy thing instead of the wooly substance of insulation

Your thinking of an attic or loft conversion, can make some good extra space if done properly.
The white stuff your thinking of is fibreglass matting, similar to the stuff they use for car body repair, it's not quite as itchy as the yellow stuff.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 20, 2015, 10:31:25 pm
Aah thats good info :) Thanks! PS our house has tiles everywhere downstairs and I walk barefoot at home and theres like large thin rugs downstairs only so it's quite cold, just cloudy weather these days too lol. I think I exaggerated a bit at the freezing part aswell :P
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 20, 2015, 11:15:54 pm
There is insulation in the loft. its the walls that have no insulation. if i go into the loft and go into corner lift up the insulation take this piece of wood to cover the pipes off and there is nothing and they should be insinuation there. it also causes this problem. and the bathroom was just painted very recently.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

And yes here is our fan
Its a LV100HTAP, SELV (12v AC) fan with Humidity Sensor, Timer (2-20) and Pull cord witch bypasses the humidity sensor. we has a problem with it where it would never switch off after you had a shower or bath, turns out hey set it way too sentisive and the timer was set to 20min. we set it way low and a the timer set at 2 min and its great, sometimes it comes on during the night when its really cold but that's to be expected (i never can hear it in the bedrooms anyway because its that quiet.)

[attachimg=3]

Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 06:50:32 am
Aah thats good info :) Thanks! PS our house has tiles everywhere downstairs and I walk barefoot at home and theres like large thin rugs downstairs only so it's quite cold, just cloudy weather these days too lol. I think I exaggerated a bit at the freezing part aswell :P

I was only teasing you mate  ;) couple of times in the last 2 weeks I've had to put the heating on, my kids reckoned it was cold in here. I know what you mean about tiled floors being cold though :icon_nod:
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 07:02:45 am
Hi D2000: Could your dad, maybe take the front off the boxwork & stuff rockwool around the pipes ? I'd also lag the pipes in the attic as well. It's a quick and cheap wany of insulating them. We had a similar problem in the kitchen of our old house & I cured it by making the boxwork slightly bigger and stuffing rockwool around the pipes. Rockwool cost me about a fiver.
Extra lagging above the area may help the problem as well.

Compared to the old extractor fans, modern versions are pretty quiet when installed properly. A friend of mine owns a pub & in every public room they've got an old 12" ventaxia either wall or window mounted, by God do they make a noise when they come on. I've been trying to get him to change them for years, but no luck he's too mean ::)
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 07:43:41 am
Lol yup ;D My bedroom seems warmest because it's the only room with actual wall to wall carpet which is also thick :)
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 08:09:41 am
There's a lot to be said for Underfloor heating when you've got tiled floors, Floor looks good but you don't get Frostbite walking on it ;)
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 08:59:32 am
I visited a church once (very lovely btw!) 😊and they had heating under the flooring which was cool imo :)
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 12:14:16 pm
Our humidity fan was an xpelair, bloody great big thing, all plastic casing and no guts.

Looked a bit like this,

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/198820-premier-cf40-centrifugal-extractor-fan-with-adjustable-humidistat

Replaced it with a 100mm manrose, works better but still get condensation all the time.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 12:55:51 pm
Manrose are good quality kit, what's the insulation like in the bathroom ?.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 12:59:48 pm
SWMBO'S sister had a new bathroom fitted recently, and they got 2 vent points put in, but told them to leave it unconnected. We went round a while ago and her hubby was unwrapping a new toy, he bought a whacking great big inline fan unit, was a good 1500w. He fitted it in the loft and said it sucks the farts straight out, and all the steam too, so they have a steam free bathroom, but also a cold one as it sucks the warm air out too.

Apparently he had to beef up the bit of ply he screwed to the joists to mount it on, turn it on and you could hear it jump up a few mm. 2 more layers of ply sorted it out (I held the connected together unit up whilst he screwed the new wood down). Sounds like someones turned a DC04 on in the loft though!
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 01:32:51 pm
Most normal bathroom fans run at about 30 to 75 watts. The inline fans we used to install for bathrooms / kitchens ran out at 100 watts for a 4" & 155 watts for a 6". A 1500 watt would be the sort of thing installed in a large restaurant / takeaway kitchen & installed on shock mounts to limit vibration.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 01:41:38 pm
He did say it was overkill, it sits on big rubber feet
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 02:12:06 pm
Be great if it was reversible, he could use it for cooling in the summer.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 03:38:47 pm
We have loft insulation 6" and cavity walls, but they are uninsulated, double glazed window and air vent, we get condensation on all walls.

Room is approx 7' x 7' bath, shower, vanity unit, toilet is separate room.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 04:01:50 pm
Is the double glazed window a vented 1 ?. The other thing is, there's a government scheme available where you may be able to get free cavity wall insulation and extra loft insulation.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 04:12:32 pm
Yes window is vented, we have climber on outside of walls, last 2 firms that came out to look wanted all the climber removed so we said no.  Would need to be able to get into loft to put insulation down  :boggleeye:
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 06:42:48 pm
The other way might be to use thermal liner roll, goes on like wallpaper with h/d paste then you paper over it. Depends on how bad it is.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 06:59:03 pm
Just running walls, no mould so it cant be that bad to be honest, just annoying.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 07:07:39 pm
You might be OK with liner then, they used to use it quite a bit on the outer walls of old stone built houses.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Dyson2000 on September 21, 2015, 07:17:58 pm
Hi D2000: Could your dad, maybe take the front off the boxwork & stuff rockwool around the pipes ? I'd also lag the pipes in the attic as well. It's a quick and cheap wany of insulating them. We had a similar problem in the kitchen of our old house & I cured it by making the boxwork slightly bigger and stuffing rockwool around the pipes. Rockwool cost me about a fiver.
Extra lagging above the area may help the problem as well.

Compared to the old extractor fans, modern versions are pretty quiet when installed properly. A friend of mine owns a pub & in every public room they've got an old 12" ventaxia either wall or window mounted, by God do they make a noise when they come on. I've been trying to get him to change them for years, but no luck he's too mean ::)

Yep, that we are going to do next year if it's dry hopefully because it needs done badly
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 07:22:22 pm
We get just as much running down the internal walls as the external wall  :grinn:
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 08:32:39 pm
Yep, that we are going to do next year if it's dry hopefully because it needs done badly

Yep: Black mould is certainly not good for you, good luck with it.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 08:36:00 pm
We get just as much running down the internal walls as the external wall  :grinn:

How about fitting a more powerful extractor ? or fitting an inline fan through to a roof vent as an addition.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 09:01:38 pm
I was thinking of a more powerful fan, I'm not messing with roof vents, not the way the wind and rain blow round here, I've seen the rain blow up one side of the roof and down the other  :o  Cant even put it in the eves, no access to them, there seams to be a double row of wooden beams round them, never seen anything like it.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 09:11:09 pm
Any idea what size / wattage the existing fan is ?. Usually in a domestic bathroom it's 100mm & about 30 watts.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 09:19:56 pm
I know it 100mm but no idea of the wattage, it was only a cheap one from screw fix about 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 09:23:49 pm
Most of the 4" list extraction rates of 23 / 25 litres a second, the Manrose 6" fans list as 63 litres a second extract. A pretty fair increase.

Before changing it though, I'd check the wall duct & outer Louvre to make sure they're in order. May save you some money.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 09:24:33 pm
Looks like 20w according to screw fix now.  Probably need a centrifugal. Can't enlarging the hole, the position of the fan means anything bigger wouldnt fit against the wall, it's right up in the corner, stupid council contractors again  :censored:
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 09:30:07 pm
Ouch: 20 watt is diddy. I can't for the life of me remember the formulae you use to work out extract rates for a given size room. But if it is 20 w look at getting a 4" fan at about 55w if you can find one.

I've never understood why people jam fans into a corner, it's just bloody stupid.
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 09:56:55 pm
none of the fans on screw fix are over 20w but they do seam to move more air than they used to  :grinn: 85/90m³/hr
Title: Re: Xpelair Fan Installation
Post by: Tech12 on September 22, 2015, 06:59:29 am
Have a look at the fans on the bay, seems to be a lot on there. Does it say what the air movement was for your old fan ?
Manrose do a super efficient / silent bathroom fan QF100H but it's not particularly cheap on eBay.

Sorry: Missed a bit earlier, a centrifugal fan would probably be more efficient but possibly not as quiet.