Dyson & Sebo Vacuum Cleaner Repair & Advice Forums

Dyson Models => Second Generation "The Ball" Dysons. => Topic started by: Parwaz7862 on November 02, 2017, 07:31:41 PM

Title: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on November 02, 2017, 07:31:41 PM
Bought a DC40 cheap in a joblot, it's the ERP mk2 type.

The brush wasn't spinning so I multi metred everything and all seemed good incuding the wiring loom.

I took the PCB out to inspect it and it's blown by the looks of it, there's a burn mark underneath.

A new PCB is 27 which I don;t want to buy, I can get a MK1 PCB for 10.

I know the MK1PCB is for the MK1 but what's the worst that could happen? I mean the AC gets converted to DC for the brush motors anyway...


Or can it be saved with a solder iron? Used a solder iron on a DC16 PCB to disable the filter magnet sensor with success.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: ryevac on November 02, 2017, 08:32:54 PM
I have not seen the pcb till i looked on ebay, nothing intelligent on this pcb as far as i can see.
On underside if r4 r5 and r6 have blown it wont affect output from pcb as they are in series as a discharge for reseviour cap.
I have found the expensive version listed and is probably the one you have and thats quite populated with smd on underside - i suspect that is a soft start circuit to protect the head motor ?

Been repairing pcb's for the last 33 years (tv, audio and commercial) with varied success but this one looks tough.

Do you have a photo of the blown pcb parwaz ?
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on November 02, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
I'll try and find the pic, but it's on the green side of the PCB, it looks burnt and the plastic part of the vacuum was also burnt

It says R1 next to it (the blown part)
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on November 02, 2017, 09:25:22 PM
Here's the blown pcb

Really sorry it's not zoomed in as this is the only pic I took of it
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Dysonboy on November 02, 2017, 10:46:57 PM
Here's the blown pcb

Really sorry it's not zoomed in as this is the only pic I took of it

Ooh that does look a bit toast Tayyab.. Hope you get it sorted!
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: ryevac on November 02, 2017, 10:57:41 PM
nasty.
main burn up is a resistor, i can only assume Q1 probably a fet is s/c taking out R1 (500 ohm) ?
They are not difficult to replace, but... U1 i suspect feeds the gate of Q1 via q2 & q3.

I usually find after cold checks on components you can replace the obvious faulty ones but there will be further issues.

In the past i have managed to repair some of the henry speed control pcb's, dc 24 and dc25 head pcb's etc - if the repair budgets are tight - more often though my customers are given price for replacement pcb which are usually accepted.

If it was the other dc40 pcb then that would be a simple one, as its just a full wave bridge rectifier, smoothing cap etc - but yours is rather more complicated as we have seen.
If you check u1, Q1 Q2 & Q3 using diode test / resistance you will find short circuit components.
Board maybe a lot cheaper from someone with a connect account ? or from a person who has scrapped a dc40...

Smd can be tricky, i do plenty as i still work for a panasonic retailer but it is becoming a tough old subject

Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on November 02, 2017, 11:31:35 PM
Ahh :/I'm a proper amateur when it comes to complex electronics, circuit board stuff annoys me (once I touched a circuit board on a hoover purepower and shocked myself despite it not being plugged in!)

I may have to just get a new pcb

If I use  normal MK1 pcb would that be a bad idea? I presume the only difference is the soft start brush motor

Replacing stuff on a PCB sounds too advanced for me :/
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: MVacs on November 03, 2017, 09:42:34 AM
The standard DC40 head has the DC24 motor in, the ERP one has the DC25 motor in. I doubt one would run the other in this case.

Test the head motor with your meter, one often takes out the other.
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: MVacs on November 03, 2017, 09:44:17 AM
nasty.
main burn up is a resistor, i can only assume Q1 probably a fet is s/c taking out R1 (500 ohm) ?
They are not difficult to replace, but... U1 i suspect feeds the gate of Q1 via q2 & q3.

I usually find after cold checks on components you can replace the obvious faulty ones but there will be further issues.

In the past i have managed to repair some of the henry speed control pcb's, dc 24 and dc25 head pcb's etc - if the repair budgets are tight - more often though my customers are given price for replacement pcb which are usually accepted.

If it was the other dc40 pcb then that would be a simple one, as its just a full wave bridge rectifier, smoothing cap etc - but yours is rather more complicated as we have seen.
If you check u1, Q1 Q2 & Q3 using diode test / resistance you will find short circuit components.
Board maybe a lot cheaper from someone with a connect account ? or from a person who has scrapped a dc40...

Smd can be tricky, i do plenty as i still work for a panasonic retailer but it is becoming a tough old subject

This bloke knows his eggs.  :bow:
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on November 03, 2017, 10:06:28 AM
The standard DC40 head has the DC24 motor in, the ERP one has the DC25 motor in. I doubt one would run the other in this case.

Test the head motor with your meter, one often takes out the other.

I know, I found it confusing tho as the pcb's role it to convert AC to DC which the DC24 and 25 brush motors use :/

The heads are fine, the Multi meter confirmed it
And just to be sure I've tried another head to no avail

It's deffo the pcb, anyone ever seen a DC40 or 41 pcb blow? I wonder what caused this
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: ryevac on November 03, 2017, 06:48:17 PM
Had a look today i dont have any scrap 40 or 41's sadly.
Will have to bite the bullet and buy a new one if nothing secondhand available.
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Dysonboy on November 03, 2017, 11:16:44 PM
Ahh :/I'm a proper amateur when it comes to complex electronics, circuit board stuff annoys me (once I touched a circuit board on a hoover purepower and shocked myself despite it not being plugged in!)

I may have to just get a new pcb

If I use  normal MK1 pcb would that be a bad idea? I presume the only difference is the soft start brush motor

Replacing stuff on a PCB sounds too advanced for me :/
The shock would of been a charged capacitor discharging through you. It's recommended to leave things with boards unplugged for 30 mins before stating work to make sure caps are discharged.  Then again, I usually am the one who powers something up out of its casing and then gets electrocuted..
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on November 03, 2017, 11:22:28 PM
Thank you for all the help everyone (especially Ryevac)

That's true Ryevac, unfortunately I had to bite the bullet and buy a PCB for 27...
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: ryevac on November 04, 2017, 01:45:14 PM
Your'e welcome, I am still 80% electronics at the moment and 20% vacs but need to reverse that figure when i eventually take the leap and work for myself.

If i ever get one in with same fault i will attempt a board repair and document accordingly.

As Dysonboy suggests try to leave an item switched off if it had a meaty reseviour capacitor, to spot them they will say for example 180uf 400v - reason it is 400v is the mains is 230vac but rectified full wave and brought up with the cap it will be around 320v to 340v dc.
Modern power boards will have a resistor across the cap upto 100k usually and this discharges the cap for you when switched off - some equipment doesn't have the resistor and can stay charged for days. I always have a 100ohm resistor to hand with probes on to force discharge or a rather crude method is to use the metal screwdriver over the cap terminals.
The capacitor on a dyson motor for example shouldn't hold a charge after power down as that's a different type of cap. If in doubt check it with a multimeter on dc voltage range.
There are many variants of power supplies, and i still get caught out 33 years later !  :'(
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on November 04, 2017, 02:00:17 PM
Your'e welcome, I am still 80% electronics at the moment and 20% vacs but need to reverse that figure when i eventually take the leap and work for myself.

If i ever get one in with same fault i will attempt a board repair and document accordingly.

As Dysonboy suggests try to leave an item switched off if it had a meaty reseviour capacitor, to spot them they will say for example 180uf 400v - reason it is 400v is the mains is 230vac but rectified full wave and brought up with the cap it will be around 320v to 340v dc.
Modern power boards will have a resistor across the cap upto 100k usually and this discharges the cap for you when switched off - some equipment doesn't have the resistor and can stay charged for days. I always have a 100ohm resistor to hand with probes on to force discharge or a rather crude method is to use the metal screwdriver over the cap terminals.
The capacitor on a dyson motor for example shouldn't hold a charge after power down as that's a different type of cap. If in doubt check it with a multimeter on dc voltage range.
There are many variants of power supplies, and i still get caught out 33 years later !  :'(

Sounds good!

That reminds me, I once had a DC14 witha blown motor, so I unplugged it and I got a shock from the plug touching the prons (literally away from the socket, it still had charge  :o
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Dysonboy on November 06, 2017, 01:05:10 AM
Your'e welcome, I am still 80% electronics at the moment and 20% vacs but need to reverse that figure when i eventually take the leap and work for myself.

If i ever get one in with same fault i will attempt a board repair and document accordingly.

As Dysonboy suggests try to leave an item switched off if it had a meaty reseviour capacitor, to spot them they will say for example 180uf 400v - reason it is 400v is the mains is 230vac but rectified full wave and brought up with the cap it will be around 320v to 340v dc.
Modern power boards will have a resistor across the cap upto 100k usually and this discharges the cap for you when switched off - some equipment doesn't have the resistor and can stay charged for days. I always have a 100ohm resistor to hand with probes on to force discharge or a rather crude method is to use the metal screwdriver over the cap terminals.
The capacitor on a dyson motor for example shouldn't hold a charge after power down as that's a different type of cap. If in doubt check it with a multimeter on dc voltage range.
There are many variants of power supplies, and i still get caught out 33 years later !  :'(

Sounds good!

That reminds me, I once had a DC14 witha blown motor, so I unplugged it and I got a shock from the plug touching the prons (literally away from the socket, it still had charge  :o
Didn't you also say that somewhere else on here since I remember reading it somewhere?
I once did that not too long ago, My DC14 funniely enough. has an MTR299 though cause I thought to put my most powerful motor in my best cleaner so? Didn't bother pressing power switch as I was only moving to another plug socket about 5 metres away. Unplugged it and just during spool down (Makes it sound like a turbo  :)) ) I grabbed the entire plug.. Yep ive had that feeling too Tayyab
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: ryevac on July 13, 2018, 12:37:31 PM
The standard DC40 head has the DC24 motor in, the ERP one has the DC25 motor in. I doubt one would run the other in this case.

Test the head motor with your meter, one often takes out the other.

just used a dc25 head motor to replace a dc40 erp head motor, all fine but noticed the dc40 motor sprocket has a wider outer flange.
only matters, if you are using a dc40 erp motor to replace a dc25, you may need to file the hole on the dc25 motors plastic support plate.
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: ryevac on July 13, 2018, 12:53:13 PM
The standard DC40 head has the DC24 motor in, the ERP one has the DC25 motor in. I doubt one would run the other in this case.

Test the head motor with your meter, one often takes out the other.

so which motor is in the dc41 erp stu ? do you know?
Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on July 13, 2018, 07:50:12 PM
The DC40 erp has the same head and motor as the DC41/55/75 ;)

TBH the mk2 dc41s are quite reliable! Motors hardly go on them and neither do any physical parts break on them anymore, Id refurb them, more reliable than a DC33 haha

Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: ryevac on July 14, 2018, 12:07:49 PM
just needed to confirm dc41 erp motor as want to keep a  41 erp head motor in stock for faster repairs on site.

Title: Re: DC40 ERP HELP
Post by: Parwaz7862 on July 14, 2018, 02:21:10 PM
:thumbsup: