Dyson & Sebo Vacuum Cleaner Repair & Advice Forums
Dyson Models => First Generation "The Ball" Dysons. => Topic started by: Dyson Tech on June 04, 2013, 04:59:20 pm
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As the DC25 machines get older, we see more and more of them in for repair.
As time goes on, we start to see certain faults time and time again. This particular fault was very hard to find the first time we encountered it. Now it is one of the first things we check.
When the brushroll motor isn't working, we usually suspect the motor itself. But this isn't always the problem. Before committing yourself to a new cleanerhead or a replacement brushroll motor, check that you have power coming from the machine itself to the cleanerhead.
More and more we are finding we don't have power from the machine. Plugging the suspect cleanerhead onto another machine often confirms it works fine.
Most people usually start stripping the switch housing down at this point, but wait a moment before you do.....
Very often, the problem is this:
(https://dysonmedic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/loom3.jpg)
One or both of these wires tend to break up. Sometimes invisibly so inside the rubber. Test the feed to and from the micro switch to eliminate that, and confirm the diagnosis.
We are seeing this problem more and more, and we have had two this week alone!
We have tried to fix the wires on some, but that is fiddly and simply caused flexing right by the repair hastening the same thing happening again a month or so later (yeah, been there).
The proper fix is to replace the little loom itself. It comes like this:
(https://dysonmedic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/loom-1.jpg)
And as we have started to use so many of them, today we put them in our shop.
You can find them here: >>DC25 Yoke Assembly Loom<< (https://shop.manchestervacs.co.uk/dyson-upright-vacuum-cleaner-spares/dc25-spare-parts/dc25-yolk-loom-assembly-916190-01).
I hope this saves a few people the misery of stripping a machine down to the bare bones looking for a fault that is in fact a broken wire you often can't see.
2022 update: Read more about this part >>here<< (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,4626.0.html) and >>here<< (https://dysonmedic.co.uk/how-to-fit-where-to-buy-dyson-dc25-yoke-loom/).
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What one can do is simply crimp the o/c using a quality tool.
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Hi there
Hoping someone can offer some advice on this problem. I have replaced the cleaner head on my DC25 Animal, I also checked the Yoke Assembly loom & the wires were broken which I have also replaced. I've also tried the reset button inside the hose next to the brush bar switch. Still no power to the cleaner head...is there any other solutions to fix this?? Seemed to have ruled out the more common issues.
Many thanks,
Ben
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Hi there
Hoping someone can offer some advice on this problem. I have replaced the cleaner head on my DC25 Animal, I also checked the Yoke Assembly loom & the wires were broken which I have also replaced. I've also tried the reset button inside the hose next to the brush bar switch. Still no power to the cleaner head...is there any other solutions to fix this?? Seemed to have ruled out the more common issues.
Many thanks,
Ben
Do you have a multimeter?
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No I haven't got one but have just ordered online. Once it's here I'll post the readings. I take it that will then give me an idea of what the issue could be?
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No I haven't got one but have just ordered online. Once it's here I'll post the readings. I take it that will then give me an idea of what the issue could be?
Yes, you need to follow down the circuit and the problem is soon identifiable then.
We should probably have a cheap multimeter suitable for these in our shop actually. We could post what dial settings to use and what readings to expect in typical testing scenarios. I'm going to look into that.
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That'd be great thanks, my multimeter has just arrived so I'll wait to hear from you...
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That'd be great thanks, my multimeter has just arrived so I'll wait to hear from you...
With an assistant.......
Take off the cleaner head, find the two terminals that feed it in the block from the machine, check they have 220-240v AC coming through them. If in the US, that would be 110-120v. For this, the machine will need to be running and reclined, brushbar switch on.
If there is no juice there we look for something else.
As this is public, we should remind the reader that the metal test prongs on the meter may be live during any test, so dont touch them.
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Hi there
Sorry for the delay in responding, it's taken a while for me to find them time to look at my Dyson. I've just followed your instructions & it appears there is no power from the cleaner head terminal, reading was zero. What next?!
Many thanks :)
Ben
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You probably want one of these (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/DC25-spare-parts.html/DC25-Yolk-Loom-Assembly-916190-01.htm).
Check that supply loom for breakages.
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Yes already replaced that thanks to this thread - see my original message.
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The next likely culprit is the reset switch by the power switch. One of these (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/dc25-reset-micro-reset-switch-914266-01).
There is also a micro switch, but they very seldom go.
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Problem solved :thumbsup: It was the reset switch - thanks so much for all your help, I now have a working Dyson ;)
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Glad you got fixed up. :tiphat:
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I know this is an old thread but quick question if that's ok?
Same probem....brush roller motor not working; got a new cleaner head with new motor which still doesn't work!
With switches in the on position I have tested the switch terminals, including reset switch, which all show live.
At the yoke terminal where the cleaner head plugs in, only one of those terminals are live when switched on.
Should both terminals be live? If they should then I guess that I have a broken wire also.
Thanks for any help.
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One is live, one is a neutral.
The problem is probably the same as in post #9 above if the cleanerhead is brand new.
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One is live, one is a neutral.
The problem is probably the same as in post #9 above if the cleanerhead is brand new.
Thanks very much for that........I'll have a look and see how to get to the yolk loom and replace it.
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Looking for some help, please.
Have similar fault in that Brush Roller from the cleaner head will not spin.
Have removed head an checked terminals of the connector on the main unit. I have measured with a meter and I only appear to be seeing approx 21 to 22v AC coming through the connector when cleaner head switch is on and machine is on, value drops to about 3v AC when I turn the cleaner head switch to off.
Any ideas?
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Don't you need to have the machine reclined in order to feed power to the brushroll motor? It won't power up with the machine vertical.
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Sorry should have said, I reclined the machine fully while carrying out the tests.
I also went in to the switch area and pressed the Red reset switch prior to carrying out the tests.
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Possible faulty reset switch then.
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I've heard of the loom breaking up, there have been many threads here on the subject, but, last week my first one came in! Dead brushroll housing. I look at the loom first now as it's the easiest thing to start with, and sure enough, the white wire was snapped.
For a quick diagnosis, with the PLUG OUT OF THE WALL I stripped each end of the wire, twisted it together, wrapped it in electrical tape and voila, one perfectly working brushroll. I suggest you try this is you are competent enough, as it could save you money chasing faults around. The PCB and/or Motor could have gone pop as well, you never know!
Diagnosed, I need a new yolk loom.
So, INGREDIENTS:
1 Yolk Wiring Loom - Only available here! - DC25 Yoke Loom Assembly (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/DC25-Yolk-Loom-Assembly-916190-01.htm)
1x T-15 Torx driver available here: T15 Torx Screwdriver (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/Dyson-type-T15-screwdriver)
METHOD:
Remove the cyclone and brushroll housing (can remove the wand and hose if it helps you!)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8Z85L4xU5IY/VOYzx84FZeI/AAAAAAAAiuA/f9BZUWcHTmo/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Tilt the machine so this cover looks at you (and questions your pint)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-X1UwAJpelgM/VOYzzfl0V3I/AAAAAAAAiuI/BgmwYinu5Oc/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Remove the three screws
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OVQNttAMBAQ/VOYz0isQFjI/AAAAAAAAiuQ/uOGzvuxHKkM/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xqWAqG7Fg3M/VOYz2BLfjlI/AAAAAAAAiuY/hFGzj7SnAyg/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
You will see my repair to the bottom white wire
Remove the white and red bottom wires (of the yolk loom) from the housing.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nHsmkhmPoBg/VOYz3XbdL5I/AAAAAAAAiug/luVi7Pq8i2E/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
To aid getting the red wire out of the brushroll switch, the switch housing simply pulls away from the chassis. You want to remove the right hand side wire (as you look at it) and feed the cable and connector out of the hole at the bottom
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L0t_9D-Z8hY/VOYz5AZ5u8I/AAAAAAAAiuo/pMUn41SFwbo/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Job done, remove the silver screw
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cJue4c6PBak/VOYz6VsycuI/AAAAAAAAiuw/p8sueCyjRBg/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-U3JJq5OZZ5w/VOYz7xs028I/AAAAAAAAiu4/Oci1k7J5Dw0/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Over to the other side now. Remove the side hose by levering it off the housing either end (if yours is split as they sometiems do, you need this - Dyson DC25 Duct Hose (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/DC25-Duct-Hose))
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ev6ia3SXt1U/VOYz9Qk1ioI/AAAAAAAAivA/sIeqwjcWt4M/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
once off, remove the screw beneath
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lAnGT6VQms4/VOYz-0dWaoI/AAAAAAAAivI/6lT7xHLQOcM/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
and remove the cap that holds the ball on square
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JaZVBg_nkQU/VOY0AS_L7PI/AAAAAAAAivQ/nuz_LAStk-U/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Next, pull the chassis outwards, and the ball will wriggle out of the wiring side. On the other side, pull the chassis out enough to enable the ball axle to clear the housing and swing outwards slightly
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ozZVdcMRz90/VOY0B5HLqvI/AAAAAAAAivY/l4qnyyCAwlk/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
You now need to unplug some wires
The top wire is Black to White. With a small flatblade, lever the spade terminals out of the housing from the top or bottom edge. To seperate, push the locking tab of the connectors in from the back with your screwdriver, adn they will seperate with ease
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pXPf7uZQ3lQ/VOY0DCnldwI/AAAAAAAAivg/xyKhcpmZf7o/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Do the same with the bottom wire, which is White to White/Blue
Once the wires are unplugged, the ball should drop away from the white ring
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zivvr2RXXpo/VOY0E54dfII/AAAAAAAAivo/H-CDw8h53i8/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Pull the yolk off the ball
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mAZ9XkYPL4Y/VOY0GYpGtFI/AAAAAAAAivw/m8YjtCJsmvI/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
This is the back of the loom housing that we are replacing. Remove the three screws
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-67iDwsy2kaQ/VOY0HxrKzTI/AAAAAAAAiv4/Jq1TESmeq74/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Pull up from the screw location area, then pull the end of the loom housing out of the yolk and voila
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0SJaEAIHkaQ/VOY0JRMm-EI/AAAAAAAAiwA/d7R132nKbdo/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Take your new part from Mvacs
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sXHnRfpyf2o/VOY0K43YmLI/AAAAAAAAiwI/qrGNQ6K35t0/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ykHeBSw45JA/VOY0MmqnsCI/AAAAAAAAiwQ/DyiVI9kFI3Q/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Feed the wires through the hole, then push the end of the loom housing in. The screws end should then fit into place
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Lf1oKexT-2o/VOY0OGJEwJI/AAAAAAAAiwY/qrXyEdYWMPA/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Refit the three screws. Then, fit the yolk back onto the ball. I find putting the axle end in first, then sliding the yolk over the other edge the easiest. There is a bit of give in the yolk ends to help with this
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WnlezsZLCPM/VOY0QJbpz_I/AAAAAAAAiwg/1UDFtMrAAIY/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Then, refit the ball to the machine:
Fit the duct hose side first, so the ball axle and yolk housing locate in that side first
Bring the other side of the ball close to the housing
Fit the white cable ring into the ball housing
Re-fit the two cables, and ensure the conenctors are locked back ionto place, and the cables channeled away. Check the wires have not pulled out of the chassis further up, if they have, tuck those back in too.
Push the ball hosuing back under the chassis so the 3 locating nubs of the motor hosuign seal locate in the holes of the chassis.
Fit the silver screw
Check all the cables again!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XG5xy7dFFeM/VOY0RptzZSI/AAAAAAAAiwo/ZUP2Z77Di8I/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Refit the locating plug and screw on the other side
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-394DLphfXUg/VOY0TTH1nGI/AAAAAAAAiww/UsSUR2-5RfU/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
refit the bellows
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GsA56RMgE8c/VOY0Uzg_h-I/AAAAAAAAiw4/OnbfPw2atIY/s800/upload_-1.jpg)
Refit the cyclone, brushroll and anything else you took off and test!
Job done, put it into vacuum corner for collection!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gnLz_7aayDc/VOY0WpWrCsI/AAAAAAAAixA/BLwU8LoUGTE/s512/upload_-1.jpg)
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Brilliant tutorial, another sticky! :bow:
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Excellent post beko.
Presumably the same sequence can be adapted for a motor replacement, i. e. remove ball from yoke, and then open the ball to access the motor? That's a procedure I've been wondering about. Is access to the motor straightforward once the ball is removed?
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Yep, when the Yolk comes off the ball, take the filter cover off, remove the 4 screws then the ball comes off.
4 more screws and the motor bucket comes apart. Take note of the way the rubbers sit.
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Hi beko1987,
I am really happy I have found your tutorial.
I have split wires also and have temporary insulated the red and white wires to check if the motor head has gone, like in your tutorial.
I had already bought a new motor head, so I put the new one on only to find the hoover still works but the motor head does not.
Could this be the PCB or am I missing anything else like switches or reset switches or anything.
Your help will be most appreciated.
Regards
bluetoaster :thumbsup:
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Hi Mr Toaster.
When you say a new cleanerhead, I presume you mean the whole head, brushroll, motor and pcb? If it's brand new then I doubt the problem lies there.
Do you have a multimeter to check that the repaired yolk wires are still working? I did a temp repair to a DC15 in the same way a while ago to tide someone over through a house move, and it took 3 goes before it worked, the wires are so thin, and under so much flex that it can fail or have never worked at all, I'd want to make sure that they were 100% working first.
Have you turned the machine on, reclined it and pressed the brushroll switch a few times to check that's not turned off?
On a DC25, there is no reset switch like a DC24, just the brushroll on/off switch, then that yolk loom, then the brushroll head PCB and motor, but if their brand new I cant imagine it would be those. If you had a multimeter you could take the cover off the brushroll housing, unplug the motor wires from the PCB, then (being careful) fit the head to the machine, recline, turn on and measure the voltage coming out of the 2 motor wire pins from the PCB, can't quite remember the voltage it would show, 300v iirc, but you should get something at least.
I'd double check the repaired yolk loom wires first tbh, or splash out on a new loom just to be sure. It's the weakest link on your setup that I can see so far.
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Take the cleaner head off. At the pins on the body of the machine, where it connects to the cleaner head. Use a multimeter set to AC volts & check for approximately 230v. You'll probably find the voltage missing due to the yolk harness being faulty.
If your not competent with a multimeter please leave it alone, electricity KILLS.
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On a DC25, there is no reset switch like a DC24, just the brushroll on/off switch, then that yolk loom, then the brushroll head PCB and motor,
There is a reset switch (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/dc25-reset-micro-reset-switch-914266-01) by the power switch. [attachimg=1]
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Is that a reset switch? I thought it was the brushroll on/off switch. If it works like a reset switch though a bit of jabbing may work the same!
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Is that a reset switch? I thought it was the brushroll on/off switch.
This will jog your memory.
[attachimg=1]
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Damn baby brain... Why didnt I remember that...
Push the button! With the machine on and reclined
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That'd be great thanks, my multimeter has just arrived so I'll wait to hear from you...
With an assistant.......
Take off the cleaner head, find the two terminals that feed it in the block from the machine, check they have 220-240v AC coming through them. If in the US, that would be 110-120v. For this, the machine will need to be running and reclined, brushbar switch on.
If there is no juice there we look for something else.
As this is public, we should remind the reader that the metal test prongs on the meter may be live during any test, so dont touch them.
I have stripped the brush bar off as it's not rotating. I have pressed the reset button (several times) and still cant get the brush bar to rotate. The machine is lying down and the main suction motor runs ok. Having studied some of your answers I have done some voltage checks with a multimeter and
there is 240 volts at the connecting plug by the brush head pivot when the brush bar is switched on at the handle but there is no voltage at the motor brushes. My wife says she saw some "flashing" towards the right hand end of the brush bar when she was using the machine....so...am I correct in thinking that the most likely cause of the problem is the printed circuit board?
Thanks for your help.
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Have you checked for DC or AC voltage at the motor brushes?
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yes, I put the test probes directly onto the motor brushes and I also unplugged the little plug with wires that go to the motor and tested the 2 thin prongs coming out of the circuit board. There was no dc voltage at either.
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You need a PCB but possibly a motor as well; one can take the other out. Test the resistance across the motor terminals.
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For the cost of a 25 pcb I always replace both. I had a 24 pop the old pcb after a new motor once, never again! I just keep the 'good' pcb incase it comes in handy one day for a quick and cheap repair
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Hi I have a DC25 that has intermittent but mainly no power to the brush head. I put a meter across the head and it seams fine, I checked the micro switch that cuts it out when vertical and that seams to work ok, I checked the loom shown above for continuity on a meter and that seams fine. I pulled the power switches out and the reset, reset is passing current as are both the other power switches so do I guess that the loom from the top to the motor needs checking but how do you get the grey moulding that covers the on of switch and reset of. I took the three screws of and found the clip on the left but it seams to be held by the clip hinge of the dust collection basket. Any clues how to get that cover of? Thanks in advance.
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insert flat screwdriver into bottom of cover near the bin catch and prise off so far, then pull the top off a little. All done in a see saw action. Usually very tight.
The cut out switch behind this plastic cover can fail, as mentioned before the yoke red/white loom is usually the culprit. The cable can break inside before the plastic outer breaks, you need to check the red / white continuity to head whilst repeatedly moving the head assy back n forth to confirm.
i had this one recently with what i thought was head failure...
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Thanks for the feed back. checked the loom, tried pulling both ends but will check them again. Just wanted to know how to get that cover of, will be a lot easier to check with it of completely.
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rock it of as i say, top n bottom, try not to prise it off sideways as it will chew and bruise the plastics.
If you get stuck i will do a quick video or a few pics on it in the morning
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Thanks to the detailed instructions provided by Beko1987 in this post, I've just refitted the Yoke loom on my DC25 and the brush works again!! ;)
Beko1987, you are a great man!!! Ta very much. :bow:
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Thanks to beko1987 for his post on how to change yoke loom assembly.
Great instructions and pictures.
A bit fiddly putting back the wiring but got there in the end.
And thanks to Manchestervacs for supplying the part.
Thanks again.
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Greetings all, newbie site. Having the same issues with my DC25. Weird thing...when i touched the leads coming from the loom, it sparked and the brush got power...any thoughts? Thanks!
Jeff
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This part?
https://shop.manchestervacs.co.uk/dyson-upright-vacuum-cleaner-spares/dc25-spare-parts/dc25-yolk-loom-assembly-916190-01
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This is the part...maybe not the spool?
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I meant the loom...sorry
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It will most certainly be the yoke assy loom as stuart linked to.
Whole yoke assy needs to be removed and the loom assy replaced, it separates from the big yoke.
If you have never done one then it is advisable to take some pics of the wiring on the rhs.
Also check the balls plastic floating bearing when stripping as they can be near the end of their life, if so replace it whilst in bits.
Don't even bother trying to repair the loom, it will fail again.
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The wiring loom that you say may need replacing before checking switches and motors, where is it. Difficult to see from your upside down photo?
Thanks
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Solved thank you. One of the terminals had come loose
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Thanks for this. After tripping my DC25 I found exactly what you showed - a broken white lead from the microswitch. I fixed it with a small insert of extra wire, but will be back for a replacement loom if (- when...) it goes again.
And thanks too for all the advice on vacuum cleaners in general. I'll definitely be looking at SEBO now.
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I am trying to follow all amazing advice on this forum to get my Dyson brushbar working again. I have found that there seems to be continuity across the yoke assembley loom thingy cables to the output, so that seems fine. The little red reset switch also seems to have continuity, as does the brush button itself. So I was assuming that these switches are okay if they have continuity? But when I check the voltage going from the terminal from the machine into the head there doesn't seem to be any. So I am a bit stuck as the advice seems to be the yoke loom or the switches that seem to cause the problem. Any advice? Sorry if I have missed something that has been explained already! Thanks for all the help so far from previous posts!
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When you checked the voltage at the head terminals, did you have the machine running and the handle reclined? Power is only applied to the head when the machine is reclined.
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When you checked the voltage at the head terminals, did you have the machine running and the handle reclined? Power is only applied to the head when the machine is reclined.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I did have it running and the machine reclined. I also tried the rest switch and the brush on/off switch a few times.
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Anyone got any other thoughts or ideas as to what my problem could be, or am I some weird outlier?!
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Anyone got any other thoughts or ideas as to what my problem could be, or am I some weird outlier?!
As an update, I had the machine reclined but there is a switch on the side with a little metal strip that needs to go down when the machine is reclined, this had slide out a bit because I had the cover off to where the yoke loom assembley is so although it was reclined the recline switch had not been activated. I have now got a normal power reading across the terminals on the machine that go to the head! I guess the problem must be with the head itself!
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I have found that although the reset switch was showing continuity that was only because I must have already pressed it. The motor actually went again for a short time when I started, but only goes briefly and then trips again. I don't know if that just means that the problem is with the reset switch. Will try bypassing or replacing it and see if that solve it.
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reset switches do fail, but in your case i would suspect the head motor is at fault if the reset is tripping.
The body of the switch( if it's the white version) may be browned and will smell baked.
Bypassing the reset switch may prove a point but you could end up destroying the rectifier / pcb in the head assy as the motor runs, draws excessive current with no protection.
You have a voltage 230v at the head terminals so presume the yoke cable is ok, these can go open circuit intermittently - but that will not cause the reset to trip.
Replace the head motor, it's a consumable part and they all fail - not hard to do other than being a little fiddly, stu posted a video on it in the dc25 department.
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reset switches do fail, but in your case i would suspect the head motor is at fault if the reset is tripping.
The body of the switch( if it's the white version) may be browned and will smell baked.
Bypassing the reset switch may prove a point but you could end up destroying the rectifier / pcb in the head assy as the motor runs, draws excessive current with no protection.
You have a voltage 230v at the head terminals so presume the yoke cable is ok, these can go open circuit intermittently - but that will not cause the reset to trip.
Replace the head motor, it's a consumable part and they all fail - not hard to do other than being a little fiddly, stu posted a video on it in the dc25 department.
Thanks so much for the advice. I saw a post about bypassing the reset switch and didn't know if that was okay, I now realise there is more to it than that. I did actually do the bypass before seeing your post and had a satisfying vacuuming session, seemed to work well but not a long term fix it sounds like. I will look to order a new motor then!
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Aye ok, it could be the reset switch, but it's normally the motor that damages the switch i found.
The logical method is to replace the cheaper reset switch first, if it still trips then change motor too.
Chicken and egg situation, belt n braces = replace both imo.
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Aye ok, it could be the reset switch, but it's normally the motor that damages the switch i found.
The logical method is to replace the cheaper reset switch first, if it still trips then change motor too.
Chicken and egg situation, belt n braces = replace both imo.
Thanks, your views have been very helpful in deciding what to do! Much appreciated.