Dyson & Sebo Vacuum Cleaner Repair & Advice Forums
Other Vacuum Cleaners & Site Suggestions => Vintage Vacuum Cleaners & Appliances => Topic started by: MVacs on June 12, 2015, 08:58:48 am
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This is going to be a somewhat ambitious restoration. If possible.
A lady contacted us with a battle scarred Kleeneze Rotork Cyclon that has been in a barn the last decade. If you dont know what one is, we have a topic >>here<< (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,4.msg4.html#msg4) that explains.
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A deal was done, and here it is packed up ready to leave Wales on its way to us.
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I am hoping to see it next week, and I will update the topic here on what will probably be a slow restoration.
Meanwhile, and this is a long shot I know, if anyone happens to have a soleplate or brushroll around? Or even a wand? Any attachments?
Or anyone who owns one of these (as I know a few here do) who can give any pointers about cross compatibility of the missing parts with other vacs? I could also use a photo of the underside of a complete one so I can see the soleplate and brushroll.
Anyone else out there with one of these - dead or alive - do get in touch (https://shop.manchestervacs.co.uk/index.php?route=information/contact) if it needs a new home.
Thoughts, comments and advice welcome.
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Wow, that is amazing!
Posting on Vacuumland may yeild you some info. TBH I know 0 about these!
I presume DC01 bits don't fit, they are completely different machines in every way arent they
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Looks to be complete at least. What motor do these use though?
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Looks to be complete at least. What motor do these use though?
Its missing tools, soleplate and brushroll, but appears otherwise complete. I wont know for sure till I see it though.
On motor, I have no idea either till we take it out. I expect it will use a generally available motor of the era though. Unlikely they engineered one just for these.
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Hopefully, it will run and just sound like crap (has anyone actually heard a Cyclon run?), and you can get it apart and change the bearings (you got a puller, right?)
Then, clean the commutor up with wire wool until shiney, wash the palstics and soak the fan. Then a ligth smear of LHM (or grease) on all the moving parts, lob it back together and hope! If the motor case is held together with screws when you get it apart, you may be in luck!
But it's american, so god knows what motor it will have. I imagine it will be something common to other machines though. What's the wattage? 900w?
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I hope to god they protected the wand a bit better than in the pic, if it's anything like a DC01 wand (and you know it'll be worse) it wont like the trip it's currently having!
Whats the deal with the hose? Clean-up and re-glue or is it a collar fit like dc01etc?
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There's a video on youtube of the Dyson Kleeneze or something. In america these were called the cyclon and the G force in Japan I think?
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Incorrect. The Cyclon was a UK market only vacuum. The G-Force is different and was re-engineered for the Japanese Market. Neither were sold in the USA although the Fantom is a variant I believe.The YouTube video you are referring to is mine and I also own a G-Force and have another YouTube video comparing the differences between the two. This may be a good resource for the Cyclon restoration as there are a number of close up shots of both machines. The Cyclon brush roll is actually made of wood and no parts will be interchangeable with a DC01. I imagine that they would have to be re-manufactured. The weakest parts are the wand locking mechanism and the cable top winder. Both are broken on my Cyclon but intact on my G-Force which has never been used!
Have a look here -
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Thanks for your input on this Bendini! :bow:
Here is a still from the video that answers the soleplate question.
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So I guess I am on the hunt for a compatible brushroll. I am thinking Oreck.......
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I might have to see if Qtex will let me snoop around the warehouse to try to find a brushroll that may do the job.
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Looking forward to watching this as it progresses, bet you wish you could go back to the days when we could get virtually any part we needed to complete a repair or restoration.
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Hopefully, it will run and just sound like crap (has anyone actually heard a Cyclon run?), and you can get it apart and change the bearings (you got a puller, right?)
Then, clean the commutor up with wire wool until shiney, wash the palstics and soak the fan. Then a ligth smear of LHM (or grease) on all the moving parts, lob it back together and hope! If the motor case is held together with screws when you get it apart, you may be in luck!
We seldom strip motors any more. It may be faster to send it down to you for a fettling, as you are the motor whisperer. ;)
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Id happily have a try! Send pics first though!
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Since the Cyclon was made by Zanussi, I'd put my bet on it being an Ametek motor?
These are very rare beasts indeed with only 500 ever made.
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Im hoping for an early amtek too inside!
Where on its journey over is it? You tracked it yet?
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Where on its journey over is it? You tracked it yet?
Not being collected till Tuesday. We should have it Thursday. I made an effort and sprang for UPS.
Yes, I'd wager there was a big old Ametek in there too.
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Aah i see. I wouldnt sleeep at night knowing hermes had it!
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If the brushroll is wooden, then (in theory) it would be possible to rebuild one by hand, assuming that you can borrow one to copy from?
Given the limited production run, perhaps they never tooled up to make some of the parts en masse?
I'd think the soleplate would be a bigger problem to replicate, unless it's cloned from another machine?
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Theres a company in america that make pattern brushroll,s, they post on vacuumland, cwp is it? As long as the ends can be replicated any old wooden brushroll with not too stiff bristles so as not to strain the motor may work.
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These guys?
http://www.cwptechnologies.com/index.php/cwp-product-lines/cwp-brushrolls
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OK fellas. Please excuse my ignorance, but what is so special about these things and what has it got to do with Dysons? :underchair: :reading:
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This is the first ever machine build to Jame's scrapbook drawings. Before it all took off, before it became viable. As said, it's licensed to another company for the build and sell, and then a few years passed and Dyson as we know them today was born!
That does make finding stuff for this even more tricky than normal though...
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I did strip the Cyclon to reseal the fan case. I should have made a note of the motor type at the time. It is certainly a physically large motor and was wrapped in foam like one from a DC02. The foam had become brittle and powdery so I had to re-assemble without it. You can hear it running on my YouTube video - "The First Dyson". It isn't that noisy. As somebody has deduced from my other video the bottom part is complete apart from the brush roll and belt. You are lucky that the wand release seems to be intact because mine is broken/missing and they are very fragile. You may be able to shorten the main hose and re-attach it to the cuff depending on where it is split and if the cuff (lilac) is present. Otherwise your Cyclon looks in promising condition!
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If it's the same foam sound deadening as Hoover or Electrolux used in the 80's it'll be perished to hell, and be sucked up the vac when you clean it out.
You may get away with the foam that comes around a DC02 motor or similar maybe? All depends on the size
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The machine arrived before the weekend. I haven't seen it yet as I have been away for a few days. Pics of it in "as it arrived" condition will follow. Followed by some strip down pics.
Something I did find out though meanwhile, Bendini's above has a wooden brushroll. A bloke on another site, a collector, has one in the US (presumably imported from the UK), and his has a plastic brushroll.
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So it seems there may have been differences between the models sold assuming both are unmolested.
As we have a good relationship with Quаltex, I am hopeful that they will let me snoop about their Manchester warehouse with the brushroll housing in hand. They have probably more brushrolls from different machines in one place than anywhere in the UK, so if I will find something compatible anywhere, it will be there.
Meanwhile, does anyone know anything about old Zanussi vacuum cleaners? They assembled these and perhaps the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
But first we need to find out if this machine is salvageable..........
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Good luck.
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It seems UPS mistreated it in transit (something we are seeing more and more with UPS now) and some small bits appear to have been broken in transit. :(
However, we decided to make a start and have a look at it.
Time to take it to bits.
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Out comes the motor.
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So this is what the motor looks like (no numbers at all on it that I can see). Not dissimilar to a DC01 Ametek motor. Anyone recognise that trademark stamped on there?
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Unfortunately, it seemed to be seized solid.
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However, a little persuasion unseized it, so time to see if it runs.
What else but the high tech method of crocodile clips on the leads, and a foot holding it to the floor while an assistant turns the power on.
It fired up and blew a cloud of dust out. First time it has ran in a decade.
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This is running. You can just make out the tiny blue spark above, where the brushes meet the armature. The motor runs quite sweet and spark free. Sounds like a DC01 Ametek too.
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Nice! A few drops of oil into the top bearing should make it a bit happier! You got a closer pic of the branding?
I can see the dc01 design in that motor housing!
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As a piece of engineering, I cant say I am impressed now I have seen it in bits. The unfathomable wand lock mechanism seems a dire design, as does the hose routing, lack of filter (save a bit of gauze in the pipe) and the lack of soleplate. For me, it would have needed much improvement before it went into production. I am not surprised not many survive.
It is easy to see the design similarities between it and the DC01, but the DC01 is way better designed. This thing looks like what it essentially is: A prototype. Very Heath Robinson throughout.
Check out the big clunky power switch.
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And all these crimped connections. :coffee:
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We fixed the long hose easy enough which was split, it has gone for washing with the next batch of back hoses.
Here is the wand and chassis stripped and ready to be washed.
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And after lots of TFR, attention with a toothbrush and some pressure washing, it hasn't come out too bad. :thumbsup:
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All the small parts will be going through the dishwasher in due course, so that's it for now till the bits are clean and dry. We will pick it up again when we have a spare hour or two.
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That power switch screams electrolux at me!
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You got a closer pic of the branding?
I tweaked the photo above a bit.
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Just raised marks, three lines one way, two the other. It does ring a bell, but I cannot place it.
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Cool. Ive posted it on the collectors Facebook page incase anyone knows! I have no idea tbh
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Those markings clang a dirty big bell but I not sure why :D
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Even if she cant be made to work, it looks like it will come up good enough for display!
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Those markings clang a dirty big bell but I not sure why :D
Same here. In the mists of my mind I am thinking I saw that on a washing machine motor from the 80's.
Even if she cant be made to work, it looks lile it will come up good enough for display!
Oh, it will work. It may take some non-original modifications, but I intend the end of this topic to be a quick video of Olga cleaning the floor with it. :icon_nod:
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Same here. In the mists of my mind I am thinking I saw that on a washing machine motor from the 80's.
It could be, I might have seen it on a Zanussi but I'm just not sure.
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So what has been holding the job up is lack of a brushroll. After exhaustive inquiries, it seems nobody seems to know anything much about the brushrolls.
However, not to be defeated.........
As we have a good relationship with Quаltex, I am hopeful that they will let me snoop about their Manchester warehouse with the brushroll housing in hand. They have probably more brushrolls from different machines in one place than anywhere in the UK, so if I will find something compatible anywhere, it will be there.
Today I spent about two hours in the Quаltex warehouse. I came up with two possible solutions: The BRL29 is a long (too long) black wooden brushroll that is from a Kirby machine. It has no place on it for a belt to run though. But the end caps seem as close as dammit to what the Rotork ones must have looked like. The BRL45 is another wooden brushroll, this time from an Oreck. It has a metal wheel on the end for the belt to run on.
So here is where we are up to now. With a calculator and a tape measure out.......
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I'm pretty confident that either Two BRL45's with the metal wheel moved and Kirby end caps, or the Kirby brushroll, shortened, with the Oreck wheel slottled in there will solve this. The latter would look more original.
Either way, it will involve a cut and shut of more than one brushroll, involving I suspect, a bit of a Dyson axle inserted into drilled out holes to make the brushroll we need with the metal wheel roller in the right place.
I am quite optimistic. :icon_nod:
The bristles will need to be trimmed back somehow on either as well.
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Proper engineering, love it!
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Progress is slow, as and when I have chance at home, but progress is progress.........
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Drilled out BRL45 wheel heated up to expand it, cut down bit of Dyson DC01 axle tapped in, cooled off and that little axle isn't going anywhere.
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After some measuring and drilling, we almost have a brushroll.......
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So now it is clamped up and will stay like that for a couple of days to make sure the glue sets.
It may look a little Heath Robinson, but the body of the brushroll is straight when tested with a metal rule all around, and the wheel is central. The bit of brushroll below wedged in, and the carefully placed screwdriver are keeping it straight while it goes off.
We'll see.......
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:tiphat:
That looks brilliant! Whats the worse that could happen?
Could always lay the finished product in the cleaner and spin it fast by hand/some other power tool before commiting to possibly smashing the bottom of the machine up!
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Whats the worse that could happen?
I reckon the worst is that it may vibrate a little. But no worse than a bent non-clutched Dyson brushroll.
Could always lay the finished product in the cleaner and spin it fast by hand/some other power tool before commiting to possibly smashing the bottom of the machine up!
Yes, I plan to test it on a DC01 Ametek motor on the bench at the shop to see how it spins. I used No Nails down the holes as it fills gaps too. The three little holes in the wheel are also full of it. I think it will be rock solid when it goes off.
It isn't like the machine will be getting any hammer, its a showpiece really, but even as that, it should work.
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It should be fine, it's got strength all down the middle, and will be held either end by the end caps. Same principle as the air driven turbo brushes.
Failing that, DC25 brushroll motor and brushroll?
You do realise that a video of this and a DC01, with some dirt thrown down would be amazing, and interesting to see from a collector POV...
You could do a PR peice and do something with the newest upright you have in the shop and this...
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Could fit a worn belt to take some of the strain off? Or would a new, tensioned belt hold everything tru-er?
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Could fit a worn belt to take some of the strain off? Or would a new, tensioned belt hold everything tru-er?
I have thought of this already, I think a belt that isn't too tight is the way to go.
Yes, there will be a short video when it comes back to life.
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I agree a floppier belt would be better. fingers crossed.
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I agree a floppier belt would be better. fingers crossed.
Yes, then there will be no pivot strain.
And its not like it has to work very hard. As long as it works, and picks some crap up off the floor, that will do for me.
How to trim the bristles is harder, snips, scissors and a bench grinder are all ineffective. I need to take about 3mm off each one. Ideas welcome......
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Hmm, apart from scissors and wire snips I cant think of anything else to use, have you tried nail or toe nail scissors and flattening out each tuft, or perhaps flattening each tuft out on a desk and using a small craft knife/scalpel.
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Extra sharp razor blades affixed to a turbo tool?
It'll be a pain, clamp a tuft in a pair of needlenose pliers and trin/cut? Would only take you eleventy billion hours to do it all...
Fix a long blade to the front inside of the base plate and fire her up? WCPGW? It would clean up the mess as it makes it then too...
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After some measuring and drilling, we almost have a brushroll.......
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
So now it is clamped up and will stay like that for a couple of days to make sure the glue sets.
It may look a little Heath Robinson, but the body of the brushroll is straight when tested with a metal rule all around, and the wheel is central. The bit of brushroll below wedged in, and the carefully placed screwdriver are keeping it straight while it goes off.
We'll see.......
Innovative use of a neon, like it :thumbsup:
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When you say snips, take it you mean side cutters. Have you tried tuff cut's ? They're like a pair of angled surgical scissors & will cut most things.
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We got loads of pairs of surgical scissors after I was in hospital with my chin, theyd open a new pack 4 times a day to change my dressing... Then leave them on the side. Bought loads home, their stupidly sharp!
Just get cellulitis in your chin, simple...
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Euch, that doesn't sound like such an inviting prospect. Think I'll buy them on ebay.
Are you talking about normal scissors though ? or the curved toughcuts the Paramedics use.
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Have you tried tuff cut's ? They're like a pair of angled surgical scissors & will cut most things.
These things?
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Innovative use of a neon, like it :thumbsup:
I thought that would tickle you. ;D
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These things?
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That's the boys ;)
Innovative use of a neon, like it :thumbsup:
I thought that would tickle you. ;D
8) ;D
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Mvacs: Try a hair clipper ;D
Beko: chin?! whaa...
PS you mean you want to make the bristles evenly lengthened?
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Hair trimmer could work :thumbsup:
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We had an idle moment today, so the Rotork has started to go back together.
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It is not finished yet as we now have to modify some small broken bits to work and get the brushroll in there.
But we fired it up and we have suction! :thumbsup:
There is a small hose missing from the side that we never noticed though. So we are making one from two DC04 non-clutched cuffs and a small bit of hose as original stuff is unavailable. Small bits of originality are going to have to be sacrificed here due to the unavailability of Kleeneze Rotork Cyclon parts.
More to follow when we get around to finishing it.
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If its not going to be used, could you get a paint match and spray the hose?
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If its not going to be used, could you get a paint match and spray the hose?
Good idea! I need to paint the cable clip anyway. :icon_nod:
This is what is missing. The bottom one is fitted in this position in the photo above. Around the time we started asking each other where the other hose was. :D
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Most paint shops will do you a spray can.
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Nice job :thumbsup: that's actually starting to grow on me :grinn:
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Id love to see the spotty oiks face when you take that into Homebase on a saturday for a colour match!
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Id love to see the spotty oiks face when you take that into Homebase on a saturday for a colour match!
There is a very well-known place in Manchester that is the paintshop of all paintshops: H Marcel Guest (http://www.hmgpaint.com/). They are well-known to be able to match anything and everything. They will have plastic/rubber paints too.
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Wow, that place looks phenomenal.
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Perfect, there has to be some benefits to living in Manchester :underchair:
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Looks awesome, great job guys 8)
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Will this beast be residing on display in your shop? Im in Denton, i want to check it out ;)
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Will this beast be residing on display in your shop? Im in Denton, i want to check it out ;)
Welcome Shaun! It will hopefully; but we may be moving before Xmas (subject to lawyers and stuff), and the new place will be much bigger and on the border of Denton/Reddish/Gorton. But even in Gorton, we'll drag it down from the attic [where all our other restos reside] if you want a look when its done. :icon_nod:
In the new place [if it comes off] they will all be out there. This, the 01 De Stijl, the 02 De Stijl, the 03 Independent, the 04 De Stijl and the new 05 we hoarded.
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So we are back on our Rotork in order that it will go in our museum area in our new shop (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,2014.0.html) we hope to move into in February. It will sit alongside other historically important machines we have: a Fantom Fury (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,2052.0.html) together with all the De Stijl models and two of the rarest DC03 machines.
The brushroll I made does indeed fit, but we need to modify the mountings for it in a non-original manner (two DC24 small bearings, two washers and two DC07 cyclone screws).
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The broken back cable hook will be replaced by a sprayed Hoover Junior metal one. We need to make a repair still in the wand mounting area, and fabricate a missing hose. Not rocket science, but quite time consuming to get it looking visually OK and functional again.
We also need a set of tools for it, so if anyone out there has some, do get in touch >>here<< (https://shop.manchestervacs.co.uk/index.php?route=information/contact).
This is what they look like.
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Also, if you are interested in these machines, here is another one that was in our shop today: Another Rotork Cyclon Vacuum Cleaner We Saw Today (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,2179.0.html).
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So today was the day to get our Kleeneze Rotork Cyclon finished.
As spares are unavailable, and this machine was missing a few bits, we had to make some modifications. The brushroll we made (pictured above) needed to be secured in a visually pleasing manner. Two DC01 wheel glamour caps and two T15 screws seemed an agreeable solution.
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The top cable hook breaks on these machines, and ours was no exception. A metal Hoover Junior one did the job quite well.
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A missing hose was the next problem. We tried many variations of flexible hose, but none looked right or would take pink paint. An unlikely part to use, but this is part of a kitchen waste pipe u-bend, painted and neatly siliconed in with pink silicone.
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And finally, the wand securing mechanism always seems to be broken on these, here a bit of DC04 carriage assembly came to the rescue (this part is out of sight).
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So now it goes back together and gets a final polish, and the end result looks OK for something that came from a cowshed with lots of missing and broken bits and a seized up motor. ;)
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And here is where it will live in our new shop.
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The final question must be "does it work?"
I doubt performance on these was up to much when new. And thirty years later, and with a non standard brushroll, one cannot expect the earth. As it is only a showpiece, super suction and blistering performance is not terribly important - but it must work.
And it does. 8)
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Amazing! Ive never heard one before. It seems to groom the carpet though, which is good. Lol at the plumbing parts on the missing hose though...
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the end result looks OK for something that came from a cowshed with lots of missing and broken bits and a seized up motor. ;)
The final question must be "does it work?"
I doubt performance on these was up to much when new. And thirty years later, and with a non standard brushroll, one cannot expect the earth. As it is only a showpiece, super suction and blistering performance is not terribly important - but it must work.
And it does. 8)
What do you mean :o You did a fantastic job! It looks pretty new I think 8) Very shiny aswell! ;D Where are my sunglasses?
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Omg just noticed the plumbing parts! As Sam said :)) That actually looks original! I am amazed ;D :thumbsup:
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Their not immediatly noticeable at all! Did you have to take it to the merchant to measure up the fittings?
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Lol at the plumbing parts on the missing hose though...
Nothing we could find was the right diameter, or wouldn't bend right, or looked really naff, or wouldn't hold paint, etc. I ransacked the shop and the garage at home and went in with a big bag of maybes. That was the only thing that just slotted in like it was made for the job, had the right curve, etc.
If I hadn't have told you, I bet you wouldn't have spotted it. ;D
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Omg just noticed the plumbing parts! As Sam said :)) That actually looks original! I am amazed ;D :thumbsup:
It a good paint match isn't it? The paint place matched it perfectly. Funnily enough, I went in with a part, the bloke at Gorton Payless (http://www.gortonpayless.co.uk/) looked at it, and said "Hmm, Palermo Pink I reckon". And he was right. They know their eggs those blokes.
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Omg just noticed the plumbing parts! As Sam said :)) That actually looks original! I am amazed ;D :thumbsup:
It a good paint match isn't it? The paint place matched it perfectly. Funnily enough, I went in with a part, the bloke at Gorton Payless (http://www.gortonpayless.co.uk/) looked at it, and said "Hmm, Palermo Pink I reckon". And he was right. They know their eggs those blokes.
Excellent! 8) Sounds like a brilliant paint shop :icon_nod:
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Oh btw are you still getting that other one off a bloke who was struggling to get a worthwhile amount for it?
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Oh btw are you still getting that other one off a bloke who was struggling to get a worthwhile amount for it?
This one (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,2179.0.html). I found him a customer for it. I can't disclose what it went for, but it was a few quid.
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Haha, those fittings are plainly toilet pipe fittings...
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Top work :thumbsup: 8)
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I reserve judgement on the plumbing, Think push fit would have looked better :underchair:
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I reserve judgement on the plumbing, Think push fit would have looked better :underchair:
Haha, oh deary me I'm sorry but that made me chuckle... They sold a Vacuum with toilet plumbing on it :biglaugh:
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the hoover vortex has bits of the air intake that look like overflow pipe!
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Maybe in them days they were cheaper?
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So now there is a Rotork Cyclon for sale, and the info is on this topic (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php?topic=2378.msg17366#msg17366).
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As an update to this, thanks to a chap on Facebook who has one of these, we have managed to identify a replacement brushroll for Cyclon Rotorks.
[attachimg=1]
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It would seem Mr Dyson at that time used a brush roll from a Vorwerk ET20 or ET30. 8)
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Excellent! You bought some then? Would be interesting to see how much it improves the performance, you should throw down a load of muck and film the results...
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No I am not going to touch ours now. I poured blood and sweat into making that brushroll I did. :chuckle:
I only noted it here for the benefit of others. Who knows if the odd one is still lurking out there in a cowshed somewhere.
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I hope you cleaned the blood off when you were done...
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Great read and a fun mystery solved ;)
Also,
Extra sharp razor blades affixed to a turbo tool?
Beko's house of horrors :o :evilgrin0002:
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Georgie I'm glad you're commenting again ;D Missed your banter!
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Georgie I'm glad you're commenting again ;D Missed your banter!
Been busy with work and the kids. Glad to be back!
Now I need to learn some of the MVacs beater bar magic for a project of my own at home >:( :boggleeye:
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;D
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I have few of those Vorwerks with the ET 30 , That means the machine is smaller than it looks.
We cant get those brush bars for the old Vorwerks any more. Interesting to see you guys still can
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Ahh that looks like the one we recently collected locally and forwarded on to a collector.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWudOWfAn3j/?taken-by=manchestervacs