Dyson & Sebo Vacuum Cleaner Repair & Advice Forums

Dyson Advice => Vacuum and Appliance Chat => Topic started by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 12:52:50 AM

Title: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 12:52:50 AM
I wanna get my DC14 animal working without buying a new motor, got other vac stuff to do before this so am on a budget. I have a DC14 motor which is burnt out, with good bearings and spins very smoothly and takes ages to slow down :) no noises either, so all good. It has burnt out though and the armature is full of carbon dust. Can I save it?

Also what is a winding? I am an amateur, I know so... bear with my stupid questions about motors lol :grinn:. I have a good perfect DC24 motor aswell and a DC25 motor if that helps.

Also my DC04 silver lime has crap DC01 suction because I took the bottom fan plate off the motor and put it back on cos I was cleaning the fan. It sounds fine but aint got the capability to lift rugs and seal in the suction now  ::)
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 10:43:21 AM
Hi Parwaz: They're not stupid questions at all & don't forget we're all amateurs when we first start out, the main windings are the coils of wire that you can see around the inside of the motor. The armature runs between the windings on the motor, the armature has it's own windings & you can see part of these at either end of the armature. With repairing a burned out motor, it depends what's burnt out. If you've got 2 duff motors though & they have'nt both got the same problems then it should be possible, having said that: I've never bothered stripping a Dyson motor. beko or Mvacs will tell you whether it's worth it though.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 11:03:05 AM
Thank you so much :) that information has helped, I think I will get annew motor, they are a pain to faff with
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 11:35:21 AM
Your welcome buddy,  :tiphat: for wanting to learn  ;D Even if your not going to use the motor, it would be a good learning experience to strip them down. Take plenty of pictures & make notes, it'll serve you well in the future. When I first started training as a sparky, my boss gave me a notebook & pen. He said the best advice he could give me was to always take plenty of notes while learning and then you always had a reference when you got stuck.
No Digital cameras in those days ;)
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 12:10:41 PM
I've made 1 good motor out of 2 before
https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,1310.0.html

It's do-able, but the tolerances are very tight, so don't expect miracles.

Sadly, by the time a motor has burnt out, the damage is already done. I got a Hoover pureshite 2000w thing earlier in the year that had burnt out (stank the house out when I plugged it in). I took it all apart, and the carbon brushes had disintegrated at the ends. I got a sharp stanley, and trimmed them back to a good point, and cleaned the armature up with wire wool. Put it all back together and.... it exploded again. Tech and other have said in the past that once it burns out, the damage is done, the comm segments wear down unevenly which causes the electricity to jump about and generally not do much good at all. I've taken a good armature with shot bearings (in the link) and swaped it all about and got no comeback (possibly would do that now with a selling machine, would keep it just to see if it could be done.

Your DC04 motor got me thinking last night after you mentioned it, it must be fixable. Did you just take the fan cover off and left everything else? How does the motor spin now compared to before? I ask because I have DC33 I'm doing now (thread to come), and I took the fan out to clean it. Putting it back together, I pushed the fan cover on too much, and the fan didnt spin. A few taps with the hammer to back it off and it span again, and works very well. If it seems to spin slower, have you tried easing it back a few mm? I can't see what else would kill suction apart from bodywork not being put together properly, or a seal missing somewhere. I presume you've tested the suction with the cyclone off at the chassis?

I need to play about with the DC50 motor in much the same way. I'm sure it momentarily slows down in use, once I get my ears syringed and can hear again I'll have another look but I was hoping to strip it and a dc24 motor down, and make one good one but I need to keep the DC50 carbon holders as they are narrower than the 24 so it fits in the housing. Hopefully I can clean the DC24 Armature up, and fit the good DC24 brushes to the DC50 motor (which has peaky looking carbons and comm), and fit it all back into the DC50 motor.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 03:03:44 PM
Cool Sam! 👌😃 basically I took the metal plate off and I cleaned the fan and sprayed WD40 in it, then put the metal plate back on and assembled the vacuum correctly, even when I feel the suction with the cyclone off directly the suction isnt very good, the tiny fragile seal with the motor tube thing is perfect aswell. The hose suction is like a DC01 and when I used the Dyson, the dirt spins slower than usual too
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 03:04:59 PM
Ps the motor fan spins smoothly and the bearings are very good in it
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 03:15:12 PM
Could the WD40 have screwed up the airflow now it's coated the fan? Or, it soaked off the crap (Was it especially filthy?) and it's blocked off some of the fins?

Whats the suction like straight out of the chassis? Does it sound 'correct'? I refurbed a DC07 once and once back together it was blocked, full on release valve open high pictched scream blocked. Cyclone off, it was fine. God knows what was wrong, I had it apart several times and in the end (luckily) put another cyclone on i had and it was fine. I know DC04 release valves can be a pain in the arse and kill all the suction as it escapes from there...

Put your hand over where the suction comes out from the cyclone first, then the hose. It'll soon tell you the issue!
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Hmm clever thinking! I think the WD40 crapped it up. The suction direct from the motor is also rubbish
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 04:48:45 PM
You got a (10m or 13mm I cant remember) socket? Whip the fan off as above, find a small pot and soak it in boiling water and washing up liquid until the water cools, then repeat. Rinse, dry, re-assemble and test!

Dont forget, left hand thread so do-up is undo, undo is do-up!

At least that rules out the cyclone then!
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 05:01:53 PM
Cheers! And btw do u mean that left hand thread is to unscrew the bolt in an anti clockwise direction? The thinsnis as stubborn as hell 😁 I can only find pliers atm
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 05:04:40 PM
Yep. You tried covering the fan with a towel/bit of cloth, clamp it firmly down with the palm of your hand whilst gripping the backside of the motor then turning the ratchet? Put some welly on and it should crack off then be finger loose to spin the nut off. Then washer, fan, washer and motor! Shouldnt need to hold the belt pulley
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 06:18:51 PM
I have done that, will need to find aomething better than pliers to grip the bolt tho lol 😄 will let u know how I get on
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 06:59:44 PM
Aaah, you dont have a socket set then! That would help alot
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 07:06:13 PM
It is the female thing like they use on car tyre removals?
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
Yes, if you punch it in to eBay you'll have lots of choice. For most vac repairs all you need is
a cheap 3/8" drive set will probably set you back about a tenner. Just had a quick look & Babz is doing 1 for 6.00
Your local Argos will sell them too. I actually bought a 1/4" drive set from Lidl the other day, I forgot mine & was out on a job where I needed it. Made by Power fix, 2 year trade warranty & a cracking little set.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 08:32:25 PM
You could use it for removing car wheels, but a breaker bar is much easier!

http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/socket-sets/halfords-30-piece-socket-set-1-4 would do for the vacs, I've found fan nuts are either 10 or 13mm

Or for more varied jobs there's this http://www.halfords.com/gifts/christmas-gifts/christmas-gifts/phaze-50-piece-socket-set

I've got the above set, bought it 4 years ago for 10 in a panic. I'd done some work to SWMBO's Corsa C, and accidentally left an innocent looking pipe off, looked like a leak off pipe so I left it dangling in the scuttle. 3 days later, she complains that the clutch doesnt work. I have a look, and there's no brake fluid (clutch and brakes on the same circuit). I drove it to Halfords at 8pm because it was the only place that would sell brake fluid, changing gear by rev matching with no clutch. Bought some and topped her up. Went to pull away, still no clutch. I'm parked under a streetlight so get out and have a look. There's brake fluid pissing out of this stupid little hose. Buggar. I have no tools on me, and the scuttle needs to come off to get to it. Back in, bought said above socket set. Scuttle off, and I just couldnt reach this now very slippery pipe. Back in for some pliers, bought a nice set, back out, pipe on, scuttle on, fluid topped up and boom, working clutch again (all under the streetlight. Someone in a 206 parked next to me and got halfords to fit a lightbulb, who couldnt do it, and since my last car was a 206 I popped the hidden clip out for them).

Since then, old faithful has done many many oil changes, sphere changes, LHM resevour changes, exhaust swaps, lots and lots of brake work, cambelt, waterpump, 2 rocker cover gaskets and a sump, and still soldiers on, despite being battered with a lump hammer many times before I bought a breaker bar.

In the back of my mind I want it to die so I can spunk out on a nicer, bigger set, but my toolkit revolves around it now, I have adapters to take the ratchet up or down a size to fit various extension bars and special sockets.

Here she is now!

(http://You could use it for removing car wheels, but a breaker bar is much easier!

http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/socket-sets/halfords-30-piece-socket-set-1-4 would do for the vacs, I've found fan nuts are either 10 or 13mm

Or for more varied jobs there's this http://www.halfords.com/gifts/christmas-gifts/christmas-gifts/phaze-50-piece-socket-set

I've got the above set, bought it 4 years ago for 10 in a panic. I'd done some work to SWMBO's Corsa C, and accidentally left an innocent looking pipe off, looked like a leak off pipe so I left it dangling in the scuttle. 3 days later, she complains that the clutch doesnt work. I have a look, and there's no brake fluid (clutch and brakes on the same circuit). I drove it to Halfords at 8pm because it was the only place that would sell brake fluid, changing gear by rev matching with no clutch. Bought some and topped her up. Went to pull away, still no clutch. I'm parked under a streetlight so get out and have a look. There's brake fluid pissing out of this stupid little hose. Buggar. I have no tools on me, and the scuttle needs to come off to get to it. Back in, bought said above socket set. Scuttle off, and I just couldnt reach this now very slippery pipe. Back in for some pliers, bought a nice set, back out, pipe on, scuttle on, fluid topped up and boom, working clutch again (all under the streetlight. Someone in a 206 parked next to me and got halfords to fit a lightbulb, who couldnt do it, and since my last car was a 206 I popped the hidden clip out for them).

Since then, old faithful has done many many oil changes, sphere changes, LHM resevour changes, exhaust swaps, lots and lots of brake work, cambelt, waterpump, 2 rocker cover gaskets and a sump, and still soldiers on, despite being battered with a lump hammer many times before I bought a breaker bar.

In the back of my mind I want it to die so I can spunk out on a nicer, bigger set, but my toolkit revolves around it now, I have adapters to take the ratchet up or down a size to fit various extension bars and special sockets.

Here she is now!

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E_TVzdF-stY/VgA9_0s00XI/AAAAAAAArhU/mOkiiOezXQ0/s800-Ic42/upload_-1.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yfoR_m8Ezqg/VgA9-HKzJtI/AAAAAAAArgw/wblxP57p1fc/s800-Ic42/upload_-1.jpg)

The bits at the bottom probably arent the ones it came with, but ones that fit stuff (far left fits the sump plug on a Vauxhall Meriva etc)

I also keep this

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LAyuaViNAmA/VgA-PNm2vwI/AAAAAAAArhA/nOje7D7adlY/s800-Ic42/upload_-1.jpg)

in my toolbox. The extension bars I bought as a set, and have enough adapters to take things from 3/4" down to 1/2" down to 3/8" which these are. Makes it bloody long mind. RAtchet and sockets were a halfords set, got them as a stocking filler. Handy to have, but the sockets only go up to 10mm, need to get a 13mm just to save me having to dig out old faithful above from the car/shed/porch/wherever it is!

I never thought I'd get so attached to a 9.99 socket set, but I feel it's been with me on EVERYTHING i've learnt about stuff! Just the other weekend it changed my exhaust for me. It'll need to do it again when I buy the right one soon...
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 09:15:28 PM
Hi Sam: Is that the Phaze set they advertise ?. I was just looking at it on their website & it looks a nice little set. They're listing 15 at the moment for collect in store or 17.99 delivered, that's a pretty good price.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Parwaz7862 on September 21, 2015, 09:24:14 PM
Awesome kit!
and omg Sam you legend, you are a motor whisperer for sure! Mvacs, give him a motor PHD will you :P
Just tried the DC04 with one more go today and it works and has good suction! lifts carpets now and picked up a lot of dirt, we had been using a DC41 Animal as a daily driver with a new cyclone, filter and new cleaner head and the DC04 still picked up loads, should service my mum's DC04 now as it's starting to look well used
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 09:33:27 PM
Not sure what my set is, the cardboard outer lasted about 3 minutes from ebing bought whilst I had a rolly to being torn off! Looks like Phaze on the website http://www.halfords.com/gifts/christmas-gifts/christmas-gifts/phaze-50-piece-socket-set. Mine was 9.99 in store though, but I know they have an offer on every few minutes. I always eye up the 120 peice professional set when they have it at 50 every now and again. Know a fair few people who have bought it and have good things to say

Tayyab - Excellent! As you hadnt physically broken anything it must have been a simple fix! Their the most frustrating problems sometimes, when nothing is blatently wrong so you need to drill down a little deeper!
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: beko1987 on September 21, 2015, 09:36:18 PM
Although looking at the website, it does piss me off when they advertise it as a 50 peice set, when 15 of them are screwdriver/torx bits! Many of the sockets are odd sizes too, when you only really need 8, 10, 13, 14 and 17mm for 99% of stuff. There's only been a few times I've needed to find an imperial socket, helping fettle carbs on a Dolomite Sprint a few months ago springs to mind, or when I need a 13mm on the other side of whatever I'm working on, so get the 1/2" out as well as the 13mm.

The spark plug socket is a bit crap though, mine doesnt have the rubber holder bit in. Had to buy a nice 4 peice spark plug set to fix that, then went and bought a diesel car so dont really use those either now!

The extension bar is very short too, I struggled getting 2 sump bolts out that were buried up by the flywheel. A quick ebay sorted that out and now I have a 3ft, 2ft, 1ft and a bit smaller extension bar now! They have come in very handy, the bolts for my exhaust are buried higher than my arm goes, with the long bar I could twiddle away quite happily. Great for whacking things with a lump hammer too, had to jump my back axle a few mm when changing the subframe bushes, again, done with ease!
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 10:18:36 PM
I don't keep any imperial stuff in my field kit any more, it stays in the workshop until I get an old machine to work on & then I just grab the tray with it in and go.
The different metric sizes come in handy for me, some machines can use 11 / 12mm or 15mm etc
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 11:12:39 PM
My dad always worked in imperial, it was a foreign language to me, especially when we are talking feeler gauges,  :boggleeye: never new if one was bigger than the other  :))  mm is so much easier.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Tech12 on September 21, 2015, 11:20:38 PM
I was brought up thinking in imperial & still slip up some times when measuring stuff.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Madrat on September 21, 2015, 11:23:12 PM
We did both at school, anything small was in mm everything else was in both, verrrrrrrrrry confusing at times.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: MVacs on September 22, 2015, 09:01:35 AM
We did both at school, anything small was in mm everything else was in both, verrrrrrrrrry confusing at times.

I fell into that overlap period too.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Tech12 on September 22, 2015, 09:23:08 AM
Yep it can still be a pain, especially when your in a rush :( but it's weird: I don't normally have problems except for measuring wood. Whenever I go to measure wood, my mind seems to automatically revert to imperial  :duh:
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: MVacs on September 22, 2015, 10:03:09 AM
I know what you mean. It will always be 3x2 or 6x4 sheets.
Title: Re: Burnt out motor reviving?
Post by: Tech12 on September 22, 2015, 10:41:00 AM
 :thumbsup: exactly  :grinn: