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Other Vacuum Cleaners & Site Suggestions => Sebo Vacuum Cleaners => Topic started by: MVacs on June 28, 2016, 02:33:48 AM

Title: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: MVacs on June 28, 2016, 02:33:48 AM
Sebo versus Dyson

It is a subject I have seen on a few discussion sites. So I thought we would try it here with a poll so folks can vote as well.

As we sell both, I think I can consider myself *reasonably* objective. That said, I have had nothing but Dysons at home since the mid/late nineties when we were first selling new DC04s. And in all that time I think the DC14 we have at home now is my 4th or 5th permanent 'home machine' since then (none died, all but the current one we still have were later sold - but I look after them).

We do have a Dyson cordless DC35 at home as well, an AM04 heating fan, a TP02 fan/purifier (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,541.msg19388.html#msg19388) and an Airblade hand dryer in the downstairs bathroom. My wife is waiting on her Dyson hairdryer, so as we have a Dyson shop as well, we might be considered Dyson freaks.  :chuckle:

Until last year, I was one of these blokes who thought proper vacuum cleaners meant "Dyson" and anything else was collectively grouped together as "other crap" (excepting interesting vintage stuff). Certainly, 99% of everything that wasn't a Dyson that came in our shop for repair the last decade or so could safely be grouped into the "other crap" category. Stuff like Vax, Bissell and Hoover.  :sick0012:

I was vaguely aware of other stuff like Kirby (a million pounds new, half a ton in weight and now 50 on Gumtree including 26 boxes of tools you will never use) and the "upmarket" German machines like Miele and Sebo, but we seldom saw them for repair so I had little experience of them.

The last couple of years, I kept hearing people in the trade talking more about Sebo. Last year it was suggested to us that many of the more reputable larger Dyson shops in various parts of the country are now also stocking Sebo as well (http://dysonmedic.co.uk/dyson-shops-now-selling-sebo/). I did some online research, and found almost nothing bad written about Sebo. I kept reading tales of people who had had them 20 years and they were still just fine. How they are used in hotels and cruise ships (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,2128.0.html). How even the Whitehouse in the US (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,2161.msg14329.html#msg14329) uses them. Sebo were voted Which? magazine's "most reliable brand", etc. To cut a long story short, I met our local Sebo rep, discussed the products in depth, checked them out and shortly afterwards we became Sebo agents.

Sebo has a large and very solid following. Mostly middle class folks in the shires and other affluent areas who typically buy them from places like John Lewis and more competitive independent dealers like us. Indeed, we now offer a Sebo vacuum home delivery service to Cheshire and our near locality (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/sebo-vacuum-cleaner-cheshire.htm). You'll not find them in Argos, QVC, Netto or Tesco. Sebo simply don't roll that way. You'll not see them advertised on TV either. We call them "the best German brand you have never heard of". It's like you must discover them..........

Dyson on the other hand are all over the TV and every outlet you can think of. They own about 50% of the UK vacuum cleaner market. We all know the products and most of them work well enough to spend a few years in our homes doing what James Dyson intended them to do.

But which one is best? Dyson or Sebo?

For me now, there is no black and white answer. It very much depends on your usage and personal preferences. Hence this topic.

Sebo - while still a premium product - is generally cheaper to buy than Dyson (because Sebo aren't on your TV every five minutes and continue to develop machines that work well rather than trying to reinvent the wheel every two years).

Bags versus Bagless.

Dyson are bagless. Sebos have bags.

All but the newest 300-400+ Dysons have filters you must wash and/or replace. In Sebos, the bag forms part of the filtration system so no filters to wash regularly.

Which is best?

There is no definitive answer to this. Both do the job equally as well in most respects. For what Sebo bags cost, the "But you don't need to buy bags" argument holds little water. If the price of bags (circa 10 a year) matters to you, buy a 75 bagless Vax and throw it away when it breaks (and it will).

Here is a comment from the Mumsnet forum on the subject:

Quote from: Mumsnet
I've had an upright Sebo for 12 years now. It's brilliant! It lasted through 2 years of living in a building site and literally vacuuming carpet padding (previous owners took carpets with them!). It never broke down or failed. We still have it. I have a lot of allergies and chose it because it is highly rated for capturing the smaller particles. I prefer having bags too. I find dealing directly with hair, dead bugs, dust, etc. a bit off putting.

Meanwhile, my MIL has had 3 Dysons in the same 12 years. They look neat, but for me a vacuum, cleaner is a work horse not a style statement.

The whole bagless -v- bags vacuum cleaner argument is like Remain or Brexit, red wine or white wine, fish or steak, or lager -v- bitter. Everyone has a different opinion, nobody can ever be right. You choose what is right for you.

The wife factor.

In terms of vacuum cleaners, my wife is reasonably lucky that she can choose anything we have in stock in our shop to use at home (she would feel luckier if our business was vintage diamonds or Jimmy Choo shoes - but it is what it is). If she doesn't like it, it can go back and be resold as reconditioned after we have serviced it. The last few years she has been very happy with a Dyson DC14; it has done everything she has expected of it. She tried a DC24 and wasn't keen on it so it went back. She tried newer stuff and went back to her DC14.

When women she knows started discussing Sebo vacuums, she started using one of our demonstrators to vacuum our shop. Just to see how they were. Recently, she decided she wanted one at home to try it out. Now, one has arrived at home alongside the Dyson......... 

[attachimg=1]

And her opinion is it is MUCH better on carpet when you hit the "hunker down" button on the top model (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/Sebo-automatic-pet-boost-X4). Worth noting that the DC14 we are comparing it to is an older Dyson model and not Dyson's latest model.

I tried the top X4 Pet model above in my office at home today (with the "extra" button on) and it left streaks across the carpet. Even my seven year old girl (who was "helping" me) said it was like "the carpet in the hotels in America because you can see the stripes where it is clean". And they use Windsors (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,2128.0.html), which are also Sebos.

My wife has decided she wants to hang on to her new black Sebo, but isn't *yet* ready to give up her DC14 (unless I find her an adaptor that makes all the Dyson dusting and other tools fit the Sebo). So in a Dyson -v- Sebo contest, she is undecided.  :-\

Edit: We now stock the >>Dyson tools to Sebo vacuum adaptor<< (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/sebo-dyson-tool-adaptor) - I solved that one.

People who have owned a Sebo seldom want anything else. But the same could be said for people who have owned Dysons. So what for the people coming from Vax, Hoover, Electrolux or Bissel into something better? Which one to choose?

So I put the subject out for discussion and a vote in our poll. Dyson or Sebo?
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: dysondc16 on June 28, 2016, 02:50:16 AM
I'll vote tomorrow! I'm taking delivery of a gently used sebo felix tomorrow (that may or may not have been on the raffle table at the recent vacuum collector's convention  :-X)

Either way, the sebo x4 I have had for a few years left me with a feeling of "meh" every time I used it. A great quality machine to be sure, but for me it showed it's age. But from what I have used of the felix, once I get it here and use it my opinion of sebo will change for the better.

One question, are miele lumped in with the "other crap"? :))
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: MVacs on June 28, 2016, 03:40:11 AM
One question, are miele lumped in with the "other crap"? :))

Good question, and no. From the Miele machines we have seen they are all nice things. But we don't see very many for repair which must say something.

We had one in this week as it goes.......

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

I never saw one of those before, but they swivel like a Sebo Felix. It was a pretty slick machine overall, and the problem with it only turned out to be a blockage. I can't say it was better than a Sebo though. For me the Sebos are simpler to operate. I have heard in the trade that Miele doesn't have the reputation it once had. But the Miele above seemed a well-built machine and very quiet.

Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: dysondc16 on June 28, 2016, 04:05:00 AM
Ah, just wondering. I'm glad you don't see them often! The store I used to work for sold more miele than anything else.

Was that machine by chance blocked where the hose entered the machine?
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: MVacs on June 28, 2016, 10:24:35 AM
Was that machine by chance blocked where the hose entered the machine?

Indeed.  :icon_nod:

I'm taking delivery of a gently used sebo felix tomorrow

For those that don't know, a Felix is a Sebo that comes wearing any one of several coats. Here is the patriotic version that was first done for the olympics.

[attachimg=1]

The machine splits off the base like so in order it can be carried around.

[attachimg=2]

We actually get very little interest in those. Most tend to buy the X4 Extra Eco (the blue and yellow one) or the X4 Pet Boost (the black one).

I think you have to try a Felix and have them properly demonstrated to you or you wont get them.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on June 28, 2016, 04:20:07 PM
I enjoyed reading this writeup! :thumbsup:

We have owned a Dyson since the 90's when my parents bought a DC01 from new to replace a Vax 121 I believe. As of now (almost 18 years later) we still use Dyson proudly (a Dyson DC41 Mk2 Animal ball- one of the latest models).

We have had most other brands (except Sebo & Miele) which were popular in the UK. This includes Vax and we have had a 6140 model which is a 3 in 1 pets wet and dry carpet cleaner type which was okayish but the build quality was poor, the vacuum only lasted about 3 years. Many other people at the time owned Vax 6131's, I had also seen a few with tape around the top of the motor bucket! :o Most of them had tape around the hose etc as well.

I have not used a Sebo, but had a physical play with an Ensisn SM2 and my first impressions were that it was solid, a fantastic design overall (except the hose coming out at the top resulting in the vacuum falling over). I like the long sock like filter by the bag, more surface area means it captures more allergens. Also, he suction comes from the side of the bag rather than at the bottom so there's hardly any loss of suction! Looks like a fantastic machine :thumbsup:

I like how they are quiet, like Henry's are known for which is ideal for commercial environments. Imagine a high pitched vacuum being used in an office in the middle of a phone call. They have a low pitched hum which is quite nice.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Madrat on June 28, 2016, 06:47:33 PM
I voted something else,  I can't be doing with bags, so I should have voted dyson all the way, HOWEVER the newer dysons (anything after dc33) are utter crap and self destruct if you look at them the wrong way.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: beko1987 on June 28, 2016, 08:22:40 PM
I'm a bagged person,  seen too many horror bagless machines for that,  and the ultracaptic looks filthy already.

But it has to be good bags,  not single wall paper ones.  Luckily fabric type ones are becoming available or are easily bodged onto vintage machines
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on June 28, 2016, 09:12:55 PM
I voted something else,  I can't be doing with bags, so I should have voted dyson all the way, HOWEVER the newer dysons (anything after dc33) are utter crap and self destruct if you look at them the wrong way.

:o I like old and new Dysons as you know lol

I don't like some bagged vacuums as they leak dust etc, but machines like Henry are good, sebo seems good as well with the bag seal but when you remove a bag, you are greeted with a poof of dust and a dusty bag housing
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: MVacs on June 28, 2016, 11:06:20 PM
when you remove a bag, you are greeted with a poof of dust and a dusty bag housing

On a Sebo bag, there is a little green cap (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/Sebo-5093ER-Vacuum-Cleaner-Bags) you can snap in when removing it to seal the bag to avoid the dust cloud. Sebo say this is preferable to the mushroom cloud you get when you empty a Dyson bin.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: beko1987 on June 29, 2016, 12:38:48 AM
Same with Miele, although on Miele the cap is built in and springs up (in theory. In practise, it gets held back by dirt in a full bag and does nothing...) Numatic have one you fold over IIRC too.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on June 29, 2016, 02:33:46 AM
Brilliant! Nice to see they think about even the little things too.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on July 01, 2016, 05:23:10 AM
Just remembered, Dysons have a simple floating head which automatically adjusts immediately to any floor type (for example going from a thick carpet to hard floor- he head adjusts instantly whereas some people say the computer system on the Sebo gets confused and can take a while for it to go and set itself at the right height and that sounds like quite a disadvantage so it could take quite some getting used to.

I'm not sure if Ensign SM2s are still made, they are not rare but no very common to find either, and that has a manual height adjustment knob which is more practical IMHO but that's just my tupence overall. ;)
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: dysondc16 on July 01, 2016, 08:41:44 AM
Well, I've had a couple days with the sebo felix, and I like it way more than the x4. I think it is a fantastic machine (not that the x4 was bad, just not for me) and it's performance is really good. clearly very well thought out and built.

But I'm probably going to have to vote "I just want to see the results". My reasoning being that lately I have been using a little bit of everything. To give you an idea, before I got my machines from the convention (including the sebo) I was using a (sigh) dirt devil cordless hand vac for the furniture  :underchair: A bissell stick vac for the bare floors (with a funny V-shaped floorhead)  :underchair: :underchair: A really nice 2009 dc25  ;) and a eureka (electrolux/aeg/zanussi) upright for the master bedroom  :'(. Lot's of cheap nasty vacuums there. And now I'm using the sebo, a 1970's hoover celebrity, and a 1950's singer cylinder, and still the dirt devil. So I'm all over the place with vacuums!

But, if I could only have one, it would have to have a bag. So Sebo it may be! I still have to think about it.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: RustySkull on July 02, 2016, 07:44:28 PM
Where is the poll?

Never mind, I'm blind.

Sebo & Kirby, for me I can't choose between either of those. They both beat Dyson by miles in all aspects though. My Dc40 is now in the loft.  :-X
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on July 02, 2016, 09:31:20 PM
Where is the poll?

Never mind, I'm blind.

Sebo & Kirby, for me I can't choose between either of those. They both beat Dyson by miles in all aspects though. My Dc40 is now in the loft.  :-X

Even though your dC40 picks up he most dirt, that's the whole point haha  :))
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: RustySkull on July 02, 2016, 10:12:13 PM
Even though your dC40 picks up he most dirt, that's the whole point haha  :))

Well, your point is a valid one however I have my reasons.

1. The Dyson feels like a flimsy toy compared to Sebo and Kirby.
2. The Sebo and Kirby's do pick up very well and they appear to leave my carpet physically looking better (Fluffyer)
3. The Dyson is much noisier
4. The Dyson in my opinion doesn't look as good. (If I'd have known more about Vacuum's when I bought it I'd not have bought it but I bought it before I even had an interest in any type of Vacuum.)
5. I'm starting to dislike Dyson as a brand, their prices for flimsy plastic are starting to annoy me.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on July 02, 2016, 11:09:08 PM
Oh right, well I got used to it ;) They do seem flimsy but unlike DC01's and DC04's etc the plastic hardly snaps off which is good. Wish they bought the DC14 quality back, a bit of old and new- Solid plastic which takes a lot to bend, and when it does bend, there's no snapping.

I heard Kirby's are loud? Maybe just the newer ones, I dunno.

I quite like the look of Dyson vacuums (except the DC03 unless it's sideways)  as they look futuristic. The DC41 certainly looks futuristic due to it's colour and tidy, simple looking design. Even a DC04 still looks modernish and that's an 18 year old design from the 90's ;D
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: RustySkull on July 02, 2016, 11:47:09 PM
Hmm, in my opinion the G1 is the quietest. The Kirby's vary in noise, they all appear to have a slightly different sound, the older ones seem quieter, for example my Tradition I think its quiet, but the Legend II is the quietest I think. The G4 is the loudest Kirby I have, but I think the Dyson is much louder and also more high pitched lol. The Sebo has a low pitch sound which I like ;)
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: beko1987 on July 03, 2016, 12:33:37 AM
I'm with rusty,  this poll is more aimed at general people I think,  not collectors.  Where's the option for a 1960s Hoover Junior?

Ive been using the UltraCaptic and nothing else for the past few weeks,  the rugs are screaming at me for a good clean! May try the Vax Mach Air I have,  or the Junior or Senior that are in the shed pre refurb.  Senior is proper manky,  so possibly not that.  I've done a senior refurb thread too,  its even thr same colour which is a pain,  but is proper barn/bin find
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on July 03, 2016, 01:34:44 AM
Haha true, I agree wirh both of you guys ;)
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: dysondc16 on July 03, 2016, 04:00:38 AM
Everyone has made some really good points. If I were to look at it from a normal consumer's perspective, it all comes down to the bag. Personally, I don't like dealing with the dust twice, nor do I want to face that angry spider I sucked up again!

For my bagless machines, they are always vacuumed off with a shop vac before the bins are refitted after emptying. Not to mention they are usually emptied in the garage!

I'm with rusty,  this poll is more aimed at general people I think,  not collectors.  Where's the option for a 1960s Hoover Junior?

Ive been using the UltraCaptic and nothing else for the past few weeks,  the rugs are screaming at me for a good clean! May try the Vax Mach Air I have,  or the Junior or Senior that are in the shed pre refurb.  Senior is proper manky,  so possibly not that.  I've done a senior refurb thread too,  its even thr same colour which is a pain,  but is proper barn/bin find

Lol at the 60's hoover option. I use one of those a lot too.
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: MVacs on July 04, 2016, 01:13:29 AM
Sebo is out in front in the poll right now, where are the Dyson folks?  :underchair:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: dysondc16 on July 04, 2016, 01:44:05 AM
I wasn't expecting that!
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on July 04, 2016, 02:51:17 AM
I voted Dyson ;D I would have thought you preferred Sebo, Stu lol :))
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: MVOlga on July 12, 2016, 10:19:52 PM
my wife is reasonably lucky that she can choose anything we have in stock in our shop to use at home (she would feel luckier if our business was vintage diamonds or Jimmy Choo shoes - but it is what it is).

 :icon_nod:

My wife has decided she wants to hang on to her new black Sebo, but isn't *yet* ready to give up her DC14 (unless I find her an adaptor that makes all the Dyson dusting and other tools fit the Sebo). So in a Dyson -v- Sebo contest, she is undecided.  :-\

Edit: We now stock the >>Dyson tools to Sebo vacuum adaptor<< (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/Dyson/sebo-dyson-tool-adaptor) - I solved that one.

I have decided to keep the Sebo X4 Pet Eco black, and sell our DC14 as we now have a Dyson 360 Eye Robot (https://manchestervacs.co.uk/DysonForum/index.php/topic,2587.0.html) to clean the downstairs hard floors. The Sebo is very capable to do everything else (the short wand you can remove as you go is nice). And the Sebo is quieter than the Dyson. And now we have the adaptor to use all the Dyson accessories with the Sebo.

[attachimg=1 width=350]
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Parwaz7862 on July 12, 2016, 10:31:51 PM
Cool :thumbsup:  Enjoy the Sebo, I still prefer a DC14 though being the Dyson enthusiast I am lol
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: heidi on July 15, 2016, 12:52:45 PM
 I voted Dyson  8)  I do really like Sebo I have had 3 of them and have thought they are fantastic but you you cannot  beat dyson they are just superior in every way 8)  but sebo deafenings come second  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Vacuum Cleaner House on July 29, 2016, 02:54:41 AM
Ifound out something interesting , Their are those who hate vacuum bags and for them we will sell a dyson but their are also those who hate bagless and prefer the bags, Its useless to try and sell someone who wants a bagged vacuum a bagless one as they will never be happy. We first did the vorwerk thing but I soon gave up on them and went to sebo and bosch. I also looked at miele and bought a bunch of samples to try out, we ended up not going with them for no other reason other than the profit margin was just to low to justify the cost involved, That said I was impressed with the S7 upright, especially the quietness however it weighs a ton and despite its swivel function feels like your pushing a few pounds of concrete around the carpet. My mom loved it and so I gave it to them. One thing I didn't like was the smell the machine gave off after a few uses despite the charcoal filter. It developed a stink to it. I have found this on every miele I have used, I have owned about 15.

My mom loved it till the brush roll needed replacement, Good grief what a price , I fixed it and sold i and gave here something else, These days she has taken a liking to the dc15  I had standing at my place ( I have a x4 sebo and a dyson dc41 ) so I gave her that to use
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Madrat on July 29, 2016, 04:30:26 PM
Actually I had a client with a Miele, that smelt like vomit, despite changing filters it would always come back.  :sick0012:
Title: Re: The Big One: Sebo -v- Dyson
Post by: Hoover Master on August 01, 2016, 07:34:43 PM
Tbh I haven't had much sebo expierence, the one I have got is a k1 which has now gone fualty. Most dysons I have head have been good. My favourite over all are the dc04 and dc05but there getting rare these days. The best modern dyson I've had is the dc25. ;)