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Author Topic: Mysterious wire on X1 auto  (Read 2820 times)

Offline ringer

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Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« on: April 30, 2019, 09:53:12 AM »

I had to open the handle on an X1. The switch has 3 wires on the
downstream side: the normal brown live & blue neutral, also a
black wire on live. Its other end is buried somewhere in the handle.
I cannot find anything connected to it. Please what is this wire for?
I am nervous about a live wire going to somewhere unknown inside
a metal handle, is there any reason why I should not disconnect it?
Machine is labelled Class II with a 2 core flex.

Thank you

mark


Offline ryevac

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2019, 10:35:39 AM »
ila_rendered
Copied that pic from sams post
It should be connected to the BLUE neutral not the live.

 The metal shaft will probably be connected direct to the black, could be a choke though and this will discharge any stray static or live etc to neutral - as no earth on the cable.

Seen it myself, but never delved any further and nothing to worry about.
There is a stripdown thread on that model by beko which will confirm it goes to the blue.

If this machine has ever been rewired by anyone, then be careful they haven't done it incorrectly.

DO NOT DISCONNECT THE BLACK

 if you ever had a cable live fault shorting to the metal then it would be better for the vac to short to neutral and trip your consumer unit or blow a fuse - if you disconnect the black and it gets a fault, it could kill you.
The only way to fail is not to try.

Offline beko1987

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2019, 08:11:04 PM »
The black wire is the earth for the metal handle, it fits right down the bottom of the plastic upper handle so it touches when fitted. As Mr Rye says, lob it on blue.
Collector and restorer of vintage vacuums, Dyson Appreciator! Come and see my blog, where I am uploading all my mountains of brochures, manuals and other vacuum cleaner paperwork, and also my youtube channel @beko1987!

Offline ringer

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2019, 11:42:45 AM »

Thank you who replied. I found that the resistance between the wire & the handle stem
is off scale > 20 Mohm. I think that this answers the Q: when the wire was connected
to Live, why did it not leave a trail of corpses?

I dont know, but I suspect that if the exposed metal stem **was** connected to Neutral,
this would violate the regulations. What I do know is: when I make this connection, the
machine (previously passing) fails its PAT. The meter says:
Riso < 0.1 Mohm
Ileak > 10 mA

Moral: If ever I need to PAT another Sebo vacuum, I will always open up the handle &
examine the wiring inside.
mark

Offline hallsy

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2020, 10:16:09 PM »
I opened up my handle as was experiencing static electricity and likewise saw this wire unattached.

Should I attach it to live or neutral? What is it attached to in a new handle?

Thanks
David

Offline beko1987

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2020, 11:05:01 PM »
Goes to the neutral I think, one of the spade terminals will have a second connector off it, it clips on there. The metal ring itself goes up the tiny hole, then snags on the plastic peg, which makes it touch the handle when it's all back together
Collector and restorer of vintage vacuums, Dyson Appreciator! Come and see my blog, where I am uploading all my mountains of brochures, manuals and other vacuum cleaner paperwork, and also my youtube channel @beko1987!

Offline ringer

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2020, 10:52:41 AM »
I opened up my handle as was experiencing static electricity and likewise saw this wire unattached.

Should I attach it to live or neutral? (cut)

I think everybody who posted here agrees that the wire should **not** be connected to live.
It should be on Neutral. I agree that this is the least bad option, but I am not at all convinced
that this is actually safe. My understanding of the Regulations is that no single failure should
make something dangerous.  If either

a) the supply wires are crossed or
b) the neutral is broken between machine & supply

than the "neutral" wire will be live.

and

What is it attached to in a new handle?

I dont know. Only way I can think of to find out would be to buy several & look.
mark

Offline ryevac

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2020, 11:29:34 AM »
I only started doing vacs 10 years ago, leaving an industrial electronic / electrical engineering industry and moving into brown / white goods servicing for a small electrical retailer.
However, we did retail Sebo (not on a large scale) dyson was very popular for us.

Getting the sebos in for repair / service was only now and again due to build quality. I had many in for a damaged cable on the usual stress point and i never did like the idea of this neutral linked to the handle.
My worry was mostly fear of customers of cutting the plug off the machine (and i have seen it) and wiring incorrectly thus revealing a live to the handle ?
It has been quite a while since i did one due to a further change in my work, does the N connect direct to the metal handle or is there a capacitor in the handle too ? Maybe someone could check with a meter on resistance ?

The only way to fail is not to try.

Offline hallsy

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2020, 06:45:22 PM »
Thanks for your replies, appreciate it. I think I'm going to leave it disconnected, may even take it out completely.
There are bumps in the wire which feel like resistor/diode/capacitor.

Offline hallsy

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 02:37:29 PM »
Hmm, but if I disconnect the black wire then it wouldn't short to neutral and trip the RCD if the handle becomes live.

Offline hallsy

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2020, 02:59:23 PM »
Update: I heard back from asking Sebo. They said to connect it to neutral. Their photos attached.

ila_rendered

ila_rendered

ila_rendered


Offline ryevac

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 08:19:20 PM »
Yes, the same info is in reply#1 on this thread.
The only way to fail is not to try.

Offline hallsy

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Re: Mysterious wire on X1 auto
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2020, 09:18:38 PM »
Excellent, that correlates then. Thank you for your help, appreciate it.

 

 

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